Vintage Gruen: 1930's » Strap 320: Similar to the Tilton

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Strap 320: Similar to the Tilton [message #5136]

Mon, 23 February 2015 00:09

kastner
Messages: 331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Pasadena CA

Gruen Guildsman

Model name : Similar to the Tilton
Type : manual
Period/date : ca. 1935
Gender : Mens

Case Maker : Gruen Watch Co
Case Material : 10kt yellow gold filled
Case Serial : 2336715
Case Style no : 186

Caliber : 165
Movement Maker : Gruen Guild
Movement Serial: unknown

Bracelet : Metal or cord (what is this type of metal bracelet called?)

Other info : This is an exact match to Strap 320. A 1936 ad for the Tilton in Mike Barnett's 1930s decade book shows that this watch is very similar to the Tilton but not an exact match. The ad for this watch shows a metal bracelet but the other Tiltons show cord bracelets. The case does not include a movement number but only the case style number. (The case does close nicely but was open in that complete shot as I was taking pictures.

index.php?t=getfile&id=2137&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2137&private=0

,

index.php?t=getfile&id=2138&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2136&private=0

,

index.php?t=getfile&id=2135&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2139&private=0

.

Attachment: Tilton 165 movement.JPG
(Size: 66.10KB, Downloaded 593 times)
Attachment: Tilton case.JPG
(Size: 49.74KB, Downloaded 554 times)
Attachment: Tilton complete.JPG
(Size: 134.45KB, Downloaded 591 times)
Attachment: Tilton face.JPG
(Size: 111.80KB, Downloaded 590 times)
Attachment: Tilton side.JPG
(Size: 22.66KB, Downloaded 592 times)

[Updated on: Wed, 25 February 2015 04:00]

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5138 is a reply to message #5136]

Mon, 23 February 2015 01:46

JackW
Messages: 1869
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

That dial looks great.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5140 is a reply to message #5138]

Mon, 23 February 2015 02:32

Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Very nice Kastner! I have one exactly like yours and only 63 watches ahead of yours according to the serial. I also have a similar Wadsworth cased 165 as well though a thinner looking bezel and a Guild A 165, squared up from the other 165 oddly enough.

index.php?t=getfile&id=2151&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2151&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2152&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2153&private=0

Attachment: triton.jpg
(Size: 267.50KB, Downloaded 493 times)
Attachment: 186.jpg
(Size: 202.21KB, Downloaded 488 times)
Attachment: wads_186_8.jpg
(Size: 246.85KB, Downloaded 487 times)

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5149 is a reply to message #5140]

Mon, 23 February 2015 23:16

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

Very nice , Jason...Love the black dial! I wonder if mine is also called a Tilton, even thought it has the later caliber 355?

The difference in movement size is so slight that I'm thinking they just reused the case as is...mine is also stamped 186.
When I find my caliber 163, I'll see how the fit is.

Mine came with a braided leather strap that fell apart when removing it to clean the case. I call this type of braided band a Bolo strap.
I did purchase some braided leather to replace it but chose the too think option and now need to go get the thinner one.

Here's mine...

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8575/16626910181_9714580e12_z.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8608/16442216609_ba46308587_z.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8611/16628005275_e1bb4393ee_z.jpg

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5152 is a reply to message #5149]

Tue, 24 February 2015 04:03

kastner
Messages: 331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Pasadena CA

Gruen Guildsman

Those are great Liz and Gary. It is nice seeing the variety in the Tilton family.

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5154 is a reply to message #5140]

Tue, 24 February 2015 09:36

Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

The downsized version seems to be a Strap 263 with filed down band attachment. It seems to have originally had 6 ring elements which were filed down to 4 and two stubs do fit a different band. And I believe that this is the "real" Tilton. I have about 20 ads from 1934 to 1939 showing a Tilton and all of them have the small size.They come with different dials (white and black). But there is not a single one showing Strap 320 as Tilton. Does anyone have a proof showing Strap 320 as "Tilton"?

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Tue, 24 February 2015 09:38]

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5159 is a reply to message #5154]

Tue, 24 February 2015 23:45

MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 319
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina

Gruen Guildsman

I had forgotten I have a gallery with my Tilton as it was in my "Watch Shop" only.

I've added the Tilton Gallery to my Mikes Restored Gruens gallery page.
index.php?t=getfile&id=2158&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2158&private=0

Attachment: 1934 Gruen Tilton.JPG
(Size: 67.53KB, Downloaded 423 times)

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5162 is a reply to message #5159]

Wed, 25 February 2015 03:57

kastner
Messages: 331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Pasadena CA

Gruen Guildsman

You're right Barney (I'm really not doing well with matching watches lately!), all the ads in Mike's book shows that the "real" Tilton is the small size. I suppose that Liz, Gary, and I need to call our large watches Tiltonish.
.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 February 2015 14:21]

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5165 is a reply to message #5162]

Wed, 25 February 2015 05:14

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

Jason...3 more Our Fathers! Laughing

Laughing

I've personally never seen an ad for this so I'll believe anything you call it. Very Happy

Very Happy

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5172 is a reply to message #5149]

Wed, 25 February 2015 17:05

afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

timeliz wrote on Mon, 23 February 2015 17:16

Mine came with a braided leather strap that fell apart when removing it to clean the case. I call this type of braided band a Bolo strap.

Brilliant. I've wondered how one would replace the leather on one of these. A bolo tie would make a perfect donor. I actually like this sort of strap and will punch anybody who calls me girly.

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5178 is a reply to message #5172]

Wed, 25 February 2015 21:36

mikey
Messages: 709
Registered: May 2013
Location: Paris, Ontario

Gruen Master

Or 'effeminate' ?? Smile

Smile

I have a Marvin watch that i wear with a very similar strap.

Still here....

[Updated on: Wed, 25 February 2015 21:38]

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5180 is a reply to message #5172]

Wed, 25 February 2015 23:03

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

afire wrote on Wed, 25 February 2015 09:05

I actually like this sort of strap and will punch anybody who calls me girly.

Out here in the west you wouldn't be called girly. My brother-in-law from New Mexico used to wear one all the time.

"In 2005...a 17-year-old high school senior in Montana was denied his diploma because he wore a bolo tie to his graduation ceremony.... The state's governor rushed to the lad's defense, declaring, "In Montana and anyplace in Indian country, a bolo tie is dressed up... a tie is a tie." In fact, in 1971, the state of Arizona had already made the bola tie (as it's spelled there) its official state neckwear. New Mexico followed suit in 2007.

quoted from http://www.collectorsweekly.com/accessories/bolo-ties

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5235 is a reply to message #5180]

Mon, 09 March 2015 21:02

MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 319
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina

Gruen Guildsman

Jason, here's an ID from the Model ID Guide Vol 2 page 44.

index.php?t=getfile&id=2194&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=2194&private=0

This one shows a cord strap. It wasn't until a 1938 ad that I saw a metal strap on one of these.

There is one advertised with the description "Black dial. Yellow gold hands and numerals" and another with a black dial that almost perfectly matches Jason's.

A nice illustration of a black dial model is on page 94 of The 1930's.

I noticed a phase in the 1930s where a number of men's watches are slender and small. They are easy enough to confuse with a women's watch that many of the ads explicitly point out it's a men's watch. I'm surprised Gruen decided to launch the Tilton with a cord bracelet rather than a metal one.

Attachment: 1934 Gruen Tilton - Gruen Model ID Volume 2 Page 44.jpg
(Size: 62.33KB, Downloaded 364 times)

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5238 is a reply to message #5235]

Wed, 11 March 2015 02:35

kastner
Messages: 331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Pasadena CA

Gruen Guildsman

I saw those pictures Mike, but we still seem to have the Tilton vs Tilton-ish problem that Barney pointed out regarding the thin and thick cases.

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5240 is a reply to message #5238]

Wed, 11 March 2015 14:16

MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 319
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina

Gruen Guildsman

Yes, the case difference I see is the extra bits at the lug ends of the case, and even some on the sides.

I believe the longer case watch above is a Culver. The images of the Culver show 6 of the wire loops at the end just like in the picture above. It's the closest match I've been able to find.

The Skipper is another with the same design of lugs but it has more ornate sides to the bezel.

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5241 is a reply to message #5240]

Wed, 11 March 2015 14:26

Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Hi Mike,

I also first thought that the Culver has the wire loops at the end but finally came to the conclusion that the loops are not part of the case but the band.
There are two versions of the Skipper which I have seen that are Strap 264 and Strap 280. One has all four sides stepped the other one only the long sides. I have ads of both versions appraising the watches as the Skipper.

Remains Strap 320 without a name, but there is the "Baron" left. I wanted to check tonight when I am back home if the picture in your ID book match with Strap 320.

Whats still left in the Tilton family are the Quadron members. Brothers in arms are Quadron 120, 121, 124 and 125 plus Quadron 140, all are sub second versions and as such easy to distinguish from the Straps. All of them have those wire loops but slightly differing cases and movements again.

Barney

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5242 is a reply to message #5241]

Wed, 11 March 2015 15:28

afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

Barney Green wrote on Wed, 11 March 2015 09:26

Hi Mike,

I also first thought that the Culver has the wire loops at the end but finally came to the conclusion that the loops are not part of the case but the band.

I would agree. I think the Culver and the Lakehurst are the same watch other than bracelet vs. band.

http://mccarthyorth.smugmug.com/Other/Gruen-Guild-Supplement-A-1931/i-xRFQ7Z9/1/O/page09.jpg

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Re: Strap 320: Tilton [message #5243 is a reply to message #5242]

Wed, 11 March 2015 19:04

Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Had a short look into Mikes ID book. The "Baron" seems to be slightly curved at the sides and has a subsecond so it definitely is not Strap 320. Not quite sure if it is a Quadron, the Quadron 140 should come with caliber 485 which is a 15 jewel caliber which would fit the Baron. But it does not look curved in the Master Book. There is a number of wire loop watches with sub second around 1936 in Mikes 30s book, but they are all unnamed. These might be the various Quadrons.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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