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Gruen 117-123 [message #3467] Tue, 01 April 2014 23:34 Go to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
Messages: 487
Registered: June 2013
Location: Somewhere in the world
Gruen Guildsman
QUESTION:


Will a balance assembly for a 117 fit in a 123?


People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Gruen 117-123 [message #3468 is a reply to message #3467] Tue, 01 April 2014 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikey
Messages: 713
Registered: May 2013
Location: Paris, Ontario
Gruen Master
This info from the 1939 Material catalogue: #117, #119, #123: all movements have two different balance staffs, with .40 & .60 hairspring shoulders/ That info is repeated in the 1948 catalogue.

And this from the 1945 catalogue: #115, #1157, #117, #119 (40 & 60 collet) is interchangeable with the #123. That same info is shown in the 1945 supplement.


Time, even vintage time, goes too fast for my tastes.
Re: Gruen 117-123 [message #3477 is a reply to message #3468] Wed, 02 April 2014 19:25 Go to previous message
MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 351
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina
Gruen Guildsman

Mikey, you did a great and thorough investigation on the staffs. That's a bunch of digging.

TT, when you say 'balance assembly', I assume this means Balance Complete. Or does this extend even further into the balance cock?

There are situations, in fact the 115, 117, 119 are examples, where the staffs are interchangeable, but the balance completes are not

You'll find a balance complete table front in the Repairer's Reference on page 26. It from the 1948 catalog that is further into the book but thought it important enough to put it up front too. For BALANCE COMPLETES, the 117 and 119 interchange, but the 115 interchanges with nothing. **

** It should be noted that the balance complete tables are not in every material catalog and thus some have the 123 missing completely due to it being discontinued. However, Mikey's analysis shows that there's the potential for 123 to fit the 117. I wouldn't bet on it to the point of buying a 123 movement with the hopes it fits.

Perhaps you could swap out the balance staff of 123 to match 117, but there's still the question if that is enough. I don't know if the swapping staffs will work on any replacement. Or if the situation above will work, where you have balance completes from 117 and 123 but balance staffs are different, you knock (err cut) out the balance staff from the 123 and match it to the 117 you have. That's over my head.

I did get bit once on a staff being the same but the balance complete being different. I forget which movement.
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