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Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10737] Fri, 23 August 2019 13:31 Go to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Restoring an early 21j Verithin VE 17L Gruen Madretsch, need a balance staff. This one was made in late 1907, believe I have seen others call these models "Gen 1.5" verithins. It has the roller plate & jewel integral to the balance spoke. Tried a V1 staff but doesn't match. Any advice or leads appreciated!

Dan

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4909&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4910&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4911&private=0

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10773 is a reply to message #10737] Thu, 29 August 2019 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
What does your "V1" staff look like? Specifically, is it smoothly cylindrical, or does it have a pronounced step in it?

I ask because I have seen both types labeled (in Gruen factory packaging) as "V1". I assume that the smooth type is the correct staff as the other type is very close (or identical?) to the V4 staff.

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10776 is a reply to message #10773] Fri, 30 August 2019 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Thanks for the reply, and you're right: the correct one would the smoothly cylindrical one. The one I'd sourced previously was one with a shoulder.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10780 is a reply to message #10776] Fri, 30 August 2019 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Found an orphaned V4 ca1915-16. Different balance/pallet vs. 1920s V4 I have. Looks close to my 21j down to the pallet bridge, which is rounded on the ends vs pointed. We'll see.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4945&private=0

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10782 is a reply to message #10780] Sat, 31 August 2019 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
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Gruen Master
If you find that that fits, could you let us know? V1 staffs are unobtanium, but early V4 movements are cheap!

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10784 is a reply to message #10782] Sat, 31 August 2019 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kastner is currently offline  kastner
Messages: 339
Registered: May 2013
Location: Pasadena CA
Gruen Guildsman
I looked at my parts drawers and have V4s and V7 staffs but nothing marked V1. However, I do have the attached for a Precision Ultra Very Thin 17J. I don't think that it is right, but I offer it up for consideration.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4949&private=0. /vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4950&private=0

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10800 is a reply to message #10784] Tue, 03 September 2019 03:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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That one looks like the one I tried previously, and from the 1925 date on the assortment it's likely for the newer version current at that time.

Taking the donor in for exploratory surgery tomorrow. Fingers crossed! I have a 19j Madrestch as a last resort, but scavenging that would kill me.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10801 is a reply to message #10800] Tue, 03 September 2019 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
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Registered: January 2017
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I have a 17j Madretsch donor that I could spare. I feel your pain...

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10807 is a reply to message #10801] Tue, 03 September 2019 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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This story is just too true to be good. Not a match; on to plan C. BTW, the only visual indicator from the top side on the stud carrier is the hole: the Madretsch has a perfectly round hole for the hairspring, while the later (non-matching) movement has semi-circle with one flat side. Difference is visible in images above.

Here's a visual of the broken staff.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4967&private=0


Also, thinking longer term of getting this into a CAD file and finding a CM. Such a simple design. Any recos?

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Wanted: info/source for balance staff, 1907 VE pocket watch [message #10956 is a reply to message #10807] Sun, 15 September 2019 03:20 Go to previous message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Update on this: I took a Madrestch 19J movement of same design & likely within same year production (sn 130k vs the 135k 21j VE). No dice.

Escapement is identical, but 19j has a standard roller table, so takes the same broad collar v1-V4 staff discussed above. So need to have staff made.

Btw, this staff looks just like a pallet arbor. Can't help thinking that would be much easier to find. Anyone know a way of checking if there's a pallet arbor available that would fit? Tried several websites, but couldn't find a way to search dimensions.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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