| The caliber 157 [message #422] |
Fri, 31 May 2013 04:04  |
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JackW
Messages: 1983
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
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Gruen Authority
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This is the caliber 157 and is a 15 jewel movement that is 8-3/4 x 12 ligne or 19.4mm x 27.07mm. This is one of the Quadron movements and is the only one that is 15 jewels. These are clearly marked with a caliber number often on the pillar plate next to the escape wheel.
There are two variation: One is a 'reduced' barrel bridge design and the other is a single train-bridge without the separate 'finger' for the escape wheel. Also, these movement appear with a frequency in Alpina marked watches. These can be marked 157 but also 765. An example here of a reduced barrel bridge.
These will also appear in Gubelin marked watches, and still noted as a 157.
A major difference in the Alpina and the Gruen editions of these movements is that the Gruen use a Breguet overcoiled hairspring where as the Alpina's use a flat hairspring.
patent is HERE
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 14:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12534 is a reply to message #422] |
Wed, 10 June 2020 13:31  |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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Some trivia on 157 serial #s, related to Favre’s Swiss patent CH110319 (filed Sept 12 1924, published Jun 1 1925).
-earliest 157 I’ve recorded has no stamped serial # on bridges (157-8, Gruen-Wads case # 990,9XX)
-sn seems to have started from 100k (already at 1009XX by G/W case # 991,2XX)
-sn 168,9XX has no visible patent related marks on front plate
-sn 170,4XX appears to have a patent pending stamp on front plate
-sn 175,9XX has “Brevet Dem.” stamp
-by sn 258,9XX, Brevet stamp appears
My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
[Updated on: Fri, 14 August 2020 19:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12538 is a reply to message #12534] |
Thu, 11 June 2020 02:06 |
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JackW
Messages: 1983
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
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In my spread sheet, I have case and movement serials with notations on movement differences. These are the ones that had dated inscriptions on the back. Hope these data can be useful...
movement serial------case serial-------date inscribed-----other
100808 5032127 1926 marked adjusted on movement, case style 157-8
unknown 5031877 July 1, 1926 same as above; case marked patent pending
142524 5269743 Dec 25, 1928 Markings unknown; owned or sold my Tomas
1101621 1228340 June 1, 1932 14K case marked OS-67; mvt marked adjusted 4 positions
1104770 5414637 no date case ref. 157-84; movt marked adjusted 4 positions
1104859 5328177 no date case ref. 157-8w; adjustment marking milled off.
1106275 5329275 no date case ref. 157-8w; no adjustment markings present
1113750 5424839 Feb 28, 1934 case ref. 157-8w; movment marked "unadj"
Interestingly.... and part of why I think Gruen was assigning serial number ranges and sometimes jumping about a bit is that the cal 179; also by M. Favre was following a similar serial scheme as the 157: The dated 179s...
155989 5239309 12-25-1928 case ref. 179-27
228884 5427611 4-16-1934 case ref. 315-3 (not a typo)
1203750 5349968 1929 case ref. 179-27
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2020 02:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12541 is a reply to message #12538] |
Thu, 11 June 2020 03:01 |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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Awesome, Jack! Thanks very much for sharing these. I think you are correct that 157 & 179 share the same movement number series. Looking at how the low # 157s trickled out from 25- 27, I can’t help but wonder if they were just very poor sellers. Gruen seems to have loaded up on movements in 1925, then spent 2 years working them off. I have a few 200k & 300k noted—very few compared to the 100k—then the jump to 1mm.
On to the Gruen-Wadsworth “patents pending” stamped cases that you showed: those are the keys to dating the 5MM Wads case # jump (planning to go there next on the case # thread). They reference not Gruen patents, but Wadsworth. Two of them, filed on the same day in September 1925. These cases were made after that. I also have Gruen/Wads case # 5,054,XXX with an 11/17/1925 patent stamp. These, along with your engravings, show the jump happened near the end of 1925.
And we can pinpoint exactly when the “patents pending” stamp stopped. Hope this is interesting to others besides myself!
My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12558 is a reply to message #12557] |
Fri, 12 June 2020 19:04 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Look like earlier movements had different dial fasting screw locations. Here two of mine, one an 11xxxx and the other a 14xxxx serial.
Barney
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Attachment: 157 14x.jpg
(Size: 33.46KB, Downloaded 1094 times)
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Attachment: 157 11x.jpg
(Size: 30.83KB, Downloaded 1094 times)
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
[Updated on: Sat, 13 June 2020 09:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12568 is a reply to message #12560] |
Fri, 12 June 2020 22:55 |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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You've an eye for details, gentlemen! (Says the guy who posted about fonts on front plate stamps, I know 🤓)
What is the lowest post-reset # and/or highest pre-reset? I've seen 1,100,1XX but no lower; 325,4XX but no higher.
Barney--I've never noticed this detail you mention. I found 123,8xx with the old screw; 139,7xx without. Doesn’t help much, I know.
Jack--I have 1,105,976 with the new bridge (also 1st I see without an adjustment stamp). That’s getting pretty tight!
Related: the Serial Number locations
1009xx: between crown & winding wheel
102xxx: I record this as top, but can't find pic
109xxx: SN definitely at top
1,105,976: small SN by click (assume Jack--yours was still top center?); no adj marks
1,108,711: highest SN I've seen by click (didn't note adj)
1,110,838: SN now on center plate; UNADJ mark top right
My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2020 23:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The caliber 157 [message #12574 is a reply to message #12568] |
Sat, 13 June 2020 03:18 |
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JackW
Messages: 1983
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
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Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
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Case wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 22:551,105,976: small SN by click (assume Jack--yours was still top center?); no adj marks
I did not note the change in serial number stamping. Didn't occur to me at the time.
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
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