Vintage Gruen: The caliber database » Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision

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Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12582]

Mon, 15 June 2020 13:44

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Adding this one into the database. The 1939 standardized parts catalogue lists this as "Extra Precision" grade. Not sure what that means. Was it one of the calibers that got a gold special "Extra Precision" edition for the 50th anniversary?

It is a Gruen Watch Co. caliber--not a Guild caliber--but there is no "Precision" factory serial number. Interesting. It seems to be Favre sourced, like so many 1xx series. Not sure what additional finishing, if any, Gruen did. Perhaps just grinding a bevel on the narrow ends of the front plate?

This one adjusted for temperatures only, I'm guessing mid- to late 1920s. Coded L 19.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6370&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6370&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6371&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6372&private=0

Here is the Favre in-house version, sold under their Delphia brand. L 335. Thanks to seller for permission to post images.
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6367&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6367&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6368&private=0

Attachment: favre delphia 151 bp.jpg
(Size: 205.63KB, Downloaded 1708 times)
Attachment: favre delphia 151 fp.jpg
(Size: 169.41KB, Downloaded 1722 times)
Attachment: 151 bp.jpeg
(Size: 158.79KB, Downloaded 1730 times)
Attachment: 151 fp.jpeg
(Size: 165.27KB, Downloaded 1719 times)
Attachment: 151 letter code.jpeg
(Size: 140.70KB, Downloaded 1731 times)

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

[Updated on: Mon, 13 July 2020 12:56]

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12583 is a reply to message #12582]

Mon, 15 June 2020 13:57

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Also Cal.151 is an ID'd Favre movement. No. 14 from 1921..

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6373&private=0

No. 15 appears to be not used by Gruen, or has anyone seen this one with a Gruen making?

Barney

Attachment: Favre 14 cal 151.jpg
(Size: 22.25KB, Downloaded 1484 times)

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12587 is a reply to message #12582]

Wed, 17 June 2020 18:38

afire
Messages: 1344
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

Case wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 08:44

The 1939 standardized parts catalogue lists this as "Extra Precision" grade.
....
I'm guessing mid- to late 1920s.

The 1926 standardized parts catalog has it listed only as Precision. All of the calibers listed as Precision Extra at this time were 18 jewels. And they usually have a diamond shaped Precision logo:

https://mb.nawcc.org/data/attachments/329/329306-8c5d1ae721604b8166e44e6ef74dd0b8.jpg

The exception would be the gold finished Quadrons that are "engraved in the old Guild manner." They are marked Precision Extra, but are 17 jewels and other than the finishing, appear to be a standard 117/119/123. But maybe there were finer adjustments or something.
So, I would conclude that the 1926 catalog is correct, and the 1939 Precision Extra designation is a mistake. Unless somewhere between 1926 and 1939 this caliber was upgraded to higher specs.

I'm a little surprised that it is a Favre movement. I had thought that by this time the Precision designation was reserved for in-house calibers, with the outsourced calibers being designated Guild. Evidently things were not quite as clear-cut as I had presumed.

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12589 is a reply to message #12587]

Thu, 18 June 2020 00:20

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Never seen one like # 15 yet, Barney

Favre seems to be the exception. Were he and Aegler guys all just super close to the Gruens? Then again, I’m not aware of even an Aegler marked with Gruen Watch Co Precision. Always struck me as odd that Favre and Aegler were the only ones who remained WSC and never got a movement letter in the first “Guild X” period, then the only ones to get one in 1929.

Regarding Extra Precision, I’ve never seen one, but that’s cuz I’ve never seen any! Those 5th Ave shop lady creations seem to have some choice trim, always a surprise. Maybe one will turn up in a 5th Ave, but I’m inclined to agree with you.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12754 is a reply to message #12582]

Thu, 02 July 2020 19:31

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Back to the origianl topic, here another proof that cal 151 is a Marc Favre movement:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6488&private=0

Barney

Attachment: Anzeige_Marc_Favre,_F.H._7._Juni_1922.jpg
(Size: 97.99KB, Downloaded 1332 times)

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12755 is a reply to message #12754]

Fri, 03 July 2020 03:24

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Favre for the ladies, now and forever!

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12757 is a reply to message #12755]

Fri, 03 July 2020 04:32

Gary
Messages: 2165
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

18 jewels?

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12758 is a reply to message #12757]

Fri, 03 July 2020 05:51

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Good catch, I think that the number of jewels could easily have been varied. Favre seem to has advertised the maximum possible, but they should have been able to reduce the jewel count to customers requirements.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12760 is a reply to message #12758]

Fri, 03 July 2020 12:38

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Yep, always show your best.

Back to afire’s comment: the ad shows an 18J + all adjustments 151 is possible. We shall see if one ever turns up

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12941 is a reply to message #12582]

Sun, 26 July 2020 23:48

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Back to the Extra Precision question: here’s a theory. The 151 is listed as 5.25L in the 1926 parts catalog. Fast forward to 1939, where it’s shown as “Extra Precision”, and it’s listed as 5.5L.

There was another 5.5L Extra Precision with the same layout as 151 in the 1926 book: the 840. For a limited time, you can view both sides of an 840 on sold item # 383608908018. I missed it while traveling.

You can also see the back side of one here on the forum.

Was the 151 a necked down evolution of the 840? Could be the bridge between Barney’s 18J ad for the 151 layout & the later “Extra Precision” notation.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Caliber 151 - (Extra) Precision - 5 1/2 '" [message #12946 is a reply to message #12941]

Mon, 27 July 2020 14:23

Jenneke
Messages: 1961
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

See cal 105. 1926 is it GWC precision. In 1939 extra precision. Same difference in ligne.

I would go for a mistake in the 1939 book, there is no diamond on the movement.

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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