| The Caliber ... [I guess I get to name it, but I'm just speechless right now] [message #14289] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 04:51  |
thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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The title says it all.
I checked the plates and the numbers match. This is a factory original.
Characteristic of V2:
- Marked Precision in diamond (!!!)
- Adjusted to "All Positions", marked on balance cock
- Moustache pallet fork
- Does not use banking pins
- Uses the V2 click and associated bridges
Characteristic of V3.5:
- Standard balance, not chronometer
- Serial number (!!!)
Characteristic of both:
- Can be Swiss stem set
- 19 jewels
- Can be marked Suisse
- Jewels in gold chaton settings
Characteristic of neither:
- Simple regulator (V3.5 would have a swan regulator and V2 would have a reverse swan regulator)
- Plate/balance jewel setting cut out exposes the banking plates & pallet fork (the edges are nickel plated, so it was done during the manufacturing process)
Anyone care to suggest a name?
[Updated on: Sun, 10 January 2021 04:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Caliber ... [I guess I get to name it, but I'm just speechless right now] [message #14295 is a reply to message #14293] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 11:32  |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Alex, I agree, this movement is a very strange hybrid. Factory made at that time? May be not, may be assembled from two different V calibers later...
But it is also possible that this is a factory made V2.5 prototype or something like that.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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| Re: The Caliber ... [I guess I get to name it, but I'm just speechless right now] [message #14297 is a reply to message #14295] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 15:45 |
thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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No, it's original. I took off the barrel bridge and the cock, and the SNs match. Also, you can see that the plate SN and the winding bridge SN line up.
That balance cock is original. And that SN is original. And the winding apparatus is original. Because they can't not be, with matching numbers...
And that's leaving aside the other oddities, like the nickel-plated edges on the pallet fork cut-out.
The strangest thing to me, thinking about it, is the simple regulator. Any of the movements most similar to this one use micrometric regulators, and this one is just as highly adjusted (or at least claims to be). The only V-series caliber that never used a fancy regulator is the V7, which may also have been prototyping out at this time.
I mean, everybody made experimental movements - the only particular oddity about Gruen is that apparently they sold theirs as regular watches. But the regulator doesn't match anything else from this period.
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| Re: The Caliber ... [I guess I get to name it, but I'm just speechless right now] [message #14314 is a reply to message #14306] |
Mon, 11 January 2021 02:43 |
thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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So... I was looking it over again, to see if I had missed anything. I thought it felt kind of light and told myself I must be imagining things. But I thought, what if it is thinner than a normal V4? It would be lighter. So I compared edge on to a V4, and what do you know, it was thinner. But, I thought to myself, this must be in error! Or maybe the different grades have different thicknesses?
Yep. Definitely caliper time. So I measured. And foun I could not believe my measurements, so I did them again. Thus the multiple samples below.
Each movement measured at four spots on the main plates, and twice on the balance cock.
Results (no dial or hands):
V1 Suisse
Plate Thickness 4.0-4.1 mm
Balance cock 3.7 mm
V3 Madretsch
Plate Thickness 3.7-4.1 mm
Balance cock 3.65 mm
V4 Madretsch (prototype 128k)
Plate Thickness 3.7-4.1 mm
Balance cock 3.65 mm
V4 Suisse
Plate Thickness 3.7-4.1 mm
Balance cock 3.65 mm
V7 Switzerland (late model)
Plate Thickness 4.0-4.2 mm
Balance cock 3.65 mm
UV model
Plate Thickness 3.2-3.4 mm
Balance cock 2.75 mm
This V? Grade
Plate Thickness 3.6-3.7 mm
Balance cock 3.25 mm
Uh, what????
I think I'll go take some more measurements now.
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| Re: The Caliber ... [I guess I get to name it, but I'm just speechless right now] [message #14315 is a reply to message #14314] |
Mon, 11 January 2021 03:01 |
thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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So, the height difference is contained entirely in the bridges. The bottom plate is the same thickness in all V-series watches. And also the LV-series (which also has an overall thickness of 4.0-4.1 mm. I just checked.)
I decided to measure one more thing: total height of the center wheel. It protrudes from both sides of the watch - and if the difference in thickness is important, it must be a part of it.
So here you go, center wheel measurements:
V1 Suisse 5.9 mm
V4 ex 1 6.2 mm
V4 ex 2 5.9 mm
V4 ex 3 6.0 mm
V4 ex 4 5.9 mm
LV1 5.75 mm
UV 4.9 mm
V? Grade Unknown 5.2 mm
Perhaps this movement was meant to prototype for a true Very-Verithin model? I recall a mention or two of a special movement in the Very-Verithin advertising, but never gave it credence. On the other hand, this is a *single movement*. Hardly a whole line of movements. And unfortunately its case is long gone.
I think I shall christen it Grade V2.25. Whatever it is, it's definitely intermediate between the V2 and V2 1/2. What better name than V2 1/4?
Also, I'm very glad that it runs and has a good staff. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if the entire train and barrel were custom...
[Updated on: Mon, 11 January 2021 03:02] Report message to a moderator |
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