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Home » The Gruen Model Database » 1920's » Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 (Cal 861 Large Cartouche aka Rectangular Wrist Watch)
Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16863] Wed, 06 July 2022 03:44 Go to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Model name: Unknown
Type: Large Cartouche / Rectangular Wrist Watch
Period/date: 1919-1922, likely 1920
Gender: Female?

Case Maker: Unmarked
Case Material: 0.935 sterling silver
Case Serial: 2931
Case Style no: n/a

Caliber: 861
Movement Maker: Factory L / ebauche or finished movement by Charles Hahn (Landeron)
Movement Serial: none on dial side; last 2 digits on parts are 89

Bracelet: aftermarket extensible link bracelet, with 1929 patent

Dial Maker: Albert (Albrecht) Beyeler-Favre, Geneve
Dial material: sterling

Other info: case is hinged at top and was assayed in Geneva. Last 2 digits of case number stamped on inside bezel corner, along with many hand inscriptions. Refinished dial. A clean, bright white dial was the first indication of trouble—and the print that is a later Gruen layout only makes it more difficult to ID. It should be fantasy script, I’m thinking

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9537&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9545&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9546&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9547&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9548&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9549&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 07 July 2022 14:24]

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16864 is a reply to message #16863] Wed, 06 July 2022 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
Messages: 2119
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader
Mantouche Laughing Laughing Laughing Gents cartouche is more plausible. What do we call a gent's baguette?

The time only timepieces are my favorites, forget the sub second dial these always bring back times when I do not need the precision, just give me the time for Pete's sake. Definitely the 30's looking.

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16865 is a reply to message #16864] Wed, 06 July 2022 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1910
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Sports watch unisex…

Family from this unknown: https://vintagegruen.org/vgforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=13 858&&srch=Sterling#msg_13858

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16866 is a reply to message #16865] Thu, 07 July 2022 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Thanks, Gary! I agree. This one may have come on a ribbon; it’s big enough for a strap.

GaryM wrote on Wed, 06 July 2022 00:12
What do we call a gent's baguette?
“Masculinity itself”, for those of us man enough to dare to rock em! Laughing

Jenneke—I’d totally forgotten yours! Thanks for the reminder! Yes, yours is an original dial. You can see how well it fills the space vs mine. And like yours, mine was likely originally printed & lacquered directly over the sterling silver metal of the dial. Yours predates mine by 600 case numbers, and both were assayed in Geneva.

For a very short time—perhaps only a year (mid-1919-1920)—Gruen brought in some Cartouche models with true fantasy dials. But they were late to the trend. Doesn’t seem to have resonated with Gruen clientele, particularly the Cartouche name for men. By 1921, the dial patterns are mostly regular, for both Gruen and the Swiss designers.

My dial pattern may have been close to yours. But I dream it was something like these from the time (not Gruens)...
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9540&private=0 /vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9541&private=0 /vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9542&private=0

I may not be too far-fetched! Here’s the closest Gruen case I’ve found, but so far only seen advertised in 14k green gold (1921)
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9543&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 07 July 2022 02:26]

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16870 is a reply to message #16866] Thu, 07 July 2022 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
Messages: 1331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Case wrote on Wed, 06 July 2022 21:19
GaryM wrote on Wed, 06 July 2022 00:12
What do we call a gent's baguette?
“Masculinity itself”, for those of us man enough to dare to rock 'em!
Hear hear! Exhibit A, one Mr. Hubert Scott-Paine, certainly a manly man by any standard:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Scott-Paine_timing_500.jpg

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16871 is a reply to message #16863] Thu, 07 July 2022 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Well, I've come to grips with remaining unknown for the time being. Added the template info & and some additional pics etc., then moved to the 1920s section.

Jenneke--was your 861 also blank under the dial (no serial number)?

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #16872 is a reply to message #16870] Thu, 07 July 2022 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1910
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Those exploded dials, that would be nice! For now, it can be what you want it to be. 👍

If I ever service the movement (or are confident enough to have a peek), I will have a look underneath the dial. I would expect to see the same maker as yours. And good you confirmed the geneva origin. To make the dial less naked, you could add some decoration. Like the greek pattern cartouche dials. Very Happy

Reminded me I should make a leather sew-on strap for her/him.

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Thu, 07 July 2022 17:16]

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Re: Unknown Sterling silver Mantouche ca1920 [message #18818 is a reply to message #16872] Tue, 13 February 2024 23:47 Go to previous message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1910
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
On a “mantouche” a worn dial looking like the one in the pictures above. Added for educational purposes:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10951&private=0
  • Attachment: IMG_8073.jpeg
    (Size: 258.75KB, Downloaded 664 times)


You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Tue, 13 February 2024 23:48]

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