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| Re: Pentagon [message #20519 is a reply to message #20518] |
Thu, 30 July 2026 19:35   |
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Jenneke
Messages: 2131
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
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Gruen Authority |
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Thanks.
Quote: So putting it all together, can you explain the timeline and how you arrived at it.
I can, but not right now. Have written it down somewhere.
I use the research info on this forum on wadsworth case serials and V movement serials to determine the year. I dont use the pw database you shared. In the past it was rubbish on dating Gruen, dont know if it has improved.
In the mean time, please feel free to share some of your watches. 😊
You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
[Updated on: Thu, 30 July 2026 19:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pentagon [message #20523 is a reply to message #20519] |
Fri, 31 July 2026 17:03 |
GruenWatcher
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2026
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Gruen Apprentice |
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Thanks for getting back to me... I've been trying to do detective work and figure out anchor point dates to the database serial numbers.
My interest now is in early Pentagons like yours above.
I used that link because I saw other people dating from it and didn't know if you were using it too. To be fair it does say +-5 years.
From my digging- It looks like thesnark17 has a database of case backs and serial numbers.
1922 serial numbers 512,XXX to 518,XXX
(In reference to movement 524030 case is 14Kt Gold Reinforced Wadsworth 365254 3-7-22 Patent Date)
thesnark17 says SN 524030, was manufactured in 1922-3, probably late in 1922. Its case was manufactured no earlier than 3/7/1922, and most probably in late 1922 or early 1923.
So, your 528262 looks like it falls a little after that. So, I can see how you date it to 1923. Probably early 1923.
What I would like to see is a Pentagon in this range with a clear dedication date engraved.
I would also like to see some Pentagons from 1921. Do they exist? Maybe thesnark17 could help us here?
============================================================ =======================================
Links where I pulled the information:
(In reference to movement 524030 case is 14Kt Gold Reinforced Wadsworth 365254 3-7-22 Patent Date)
https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/gruen-verithin-pocket-watch.216 775/#post-1773201
Your watch movement, SN 524030, was manufactured in 1922-3, probably late in 1922. Its case was manufactured no earlier than 3/7/1922, and most probably in late 1922 or early 1923. This information is drawn from my serial number research on Gruen pocket watches, and relates to production, not necessarily retail.
thesnark17 message #8
https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/a-rare-16j-gruen-veri-thin-p-w. 69124/#post-1435952
In 1922, Gruen introduced its patented Pentagon case shape and positioned it at the top of its pocket watch lineup. Only one problem: by this time Gruen's "Precision" mark was a big part of its branding, but the only pocket watches bearing that mark were the Chronometer line VE/1/2/3. And Gruen was trying to make a premium watch for the masses - the Chronometer line simply would not do. What to do, what to do? And then someone had a bright idea: let's lower the definition of "Precision" a bit! Then our regular line of pocket watches will meet it, and our advertising will be a thing of beauty! So that's what they did.
The first step was to redefine the value of Precision. This was simple. Gruen started calling the V4 movement a Precision grade, and movement markings to that effect begin around 512k (early 1922, in Pentagons only) and become universal by late 518k (late 1922 production). The adjustments marking changes at the same time from 5 pos/temp to the nonsensical 8 pos/temp
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| Re: Pentagon [message #20524 is a reply to message #20523] |
Sat, 01 August 2026 20:54 |
GruenWatcher
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2026
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Gruen Apprentice |
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Looks like I got lucky and found an internet sale with an anchor date of 1923. Wish I could have bought this one!
Your watch movement is less than 400 away. I know there is a lag on the retail sales, but these anchor date watches are priceless.
Your watch 528,261 Wadsworth case 366,411
Sale watch 528,650 Wadsworth case 371,860
Pictures from the internet sale follows:
(Hit your back button to return to this post when you are on the picture page)
[Updated on: Sun, 02 August 2026 13:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pentagon [message #20528 is a reply to message #20524] |
Wed, 12 August 2026 07:24 |
GruenWatcher
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2026
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Gruen Apprentice |
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Jenneke,
Let's have some fun... Do you know the most interesting* anchor date watch for 1923? It is also priceless.
It is a 14kt gold Pentagon Gruen watch so it will use an in-house case serial number. So here you go.
Your Watch 528,261
Famous Watch 526,564
Difference 1,697 So, yours it pretty close.
Babe Ruth's 1923 World Series 14kt Gold Pentagon Gruen
Pentagon Gruen movement serial number: 526564
Pentagon Gruen Case serial number: 1060722
The 526564 movement number is independently confirmed in Heritage's Intelligent Collector publication
Quote:526564 SERIAL NUMBER on Gruen Verithin championship watch presented to Babe Ruth at the 1923 World Series.
It sold for $717,000 in February 2014.
This same watch went up for sale last year but for some reason it wasn't sold. Interesting...
*As a side note: Getting the movement serial numbers and case numbers from other players would further cement this time frame.
pulled from this link (click file attachment below) https://intelligentcollector.com/by-the-numbers-1956-world-s eries/
additional pictures link https://www.atimelyperspective.com/babe-ruth-1923-world-seri es-pocket-watch-by-gruen-sells-for-717000/
[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2026 11:38] Report message to a moderator |
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