Vintage Gruen: 1920's » 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849

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'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5244]

Thu, 12 March 2015 19:26

Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France

Gruen Master

Model name :
Type :Cartouche
Period/date :1920's
Gender :Ladies

Case Maker :Swiss (Unknown)
Case Material :14K SG
Case Serial :5333
Case Style no :

Caliber :846
Movement Maker :
Movement Serial:

Bracelet :

I just got lucky and won this cartouche shaped full Swiss Gruen featuring the mysterious 'Factory L' movement Cal. 849. So far I had never seen this movement in its original case, until I found this one in Germany Very Happy

Solid 14k 30x19mm ornate case with wire lugs. Unfortunatelly the case doesn't give any additional clues other than it was produced in Switzerland. So happy with any additional info.

The pictures are from the seller.

index.php?t=getfile&id=2195&private=0

Attachment: Gruen Cal.849 1.3.JPG
(Size: 138.59KB, Downloaded 1231 times)
Attachment: Gruen Cal.849 1.4.JPG
(Size: 133.25KB, Downloaded 1196 times)
Attachment: Gruen Cal.849 1.1.JPG
(Size: 118.37KB, Downloaded 1243 times)
Attachment: Gruen Cal.849 1.2.JPG
(Size: 143.87KB, Downloaded 1234 times)

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 19:54] by Moderator

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5245 is a reply to message #5244]

Thu, 12 March 2015 19:42

Gary
Messages: 2121
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Veri nice touche Thojil! Interesting to see the barrel bridge being shared with the center wheel on that movement.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5246 is a reply to message #5245]

Thu, 12 March 2015 19:55

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

Nice one, Thojil!

That looks like the movement Baileybird was asking about at VWF.

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5248 is a reply to message #5246]

Thu, 12 March 2015 21:40

Bayleybird1996
Messages: 21
Registered: November 2014
Location: Texas

Gruen Apprentice

timeliz wrote on Thu, 12 March 2015 19:55

Nice one, Thojil!

That looks like the movement Baileybird was asking about at VWF.

You are absolutely right, timeliz, but Thojil's is marked "Factory L" and runs. Smile

Mine was in a case without a dial and is dead as a doornail! Sad

This movement just doesn't look very "Gruenish" to me, but I am a novice about this kind of thing. Hopefully someone will
know the maker.

index.php?t=getfile&id=2200&private=0

Attachment: Mystery.JPG
(Size: 21.33KB, Downloaded 1029 times)

[Updated on: Thu, 12 March 2015 22:02]

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5251 is a reply to message #5248]

Fri, 13 March 2015 21:03

afire
Messages: 1331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

I was thinking it might be in the 1918 book, but it's not. And obviously it's much too early for the 1929 book, so I suppose it falls into the no-man's land. I also didn't spot it in 1919-1922 ads currently up on eBay, and I suspect it was made in that timeframe. I'd periodically check ads from the late teens to early twenties.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5267 is a reply to message #5251]

Mon, 16 March 2015 02:37

MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 319
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina

Gruen Guildsman

If looking for the movement, it's on page 137 of the Repairer's Reference, which is Plate S-4 of the 1926 Standardized Parts Supplement B. So the movement showed up somewhere between 1921-1926.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #5268 is a reply to message #5267]

Mon, 16 March 2015 09:56

Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France

Gruen Master

Thanks all for the info ( or lack of Laughing

). When I get around stripping the movement I will check for more hints on the manufacturer.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #6298 is a reply to message #5268]

Thu, 26 November 2015 01:46

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

More eye candy...

I recently got lucky and found this Cartouche with cal 849. I was pleasantly surprised by the size.
I was expecting it to be smaller based on the dims listed on interchangeability list, pg. 7 (Mike's green tome) but those are incorrect!
I took a comparison photo next to an 835 cartouche.
My movement does not have the 'Factory L' stamp. Batteries ran out before I could get movement pics and inside case marks.
Case marks are the same as Thojil's except case # is of course different.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5703/23013107320_1a87049190_c.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/661/22940993489_4b94acf26a_c.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5678/23226319991_568d9bdea2_b.jpg

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #6299 is a reply to message #6298]

Thu, 26 November 2015 02:05

Gary
Messages: 2121
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Wow Liz, that one is stunning! I love the bezel design on that one.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #6302 is a reply to message #6299]

Thu, 26 November 2015 08:33

Barney Green
Messages: 1751
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

First of all: I love those watches! Congrats to the owners...

Putting together what I know about these, I would say it is possible to date them towards 1921/22. For what I know the Cartouches were introduced 1921, so this is the starting point. The Catalog formerly known as Master Book starts late 1922. Since these ARE Cartouches and they are NOT in the Catalog, they should have introduced before which leaves the time frame mentioned earlier.

Here is a 1921 ad showing the movement:

index.php?t=getfile&id=2601&private=0

And a 1922 ad showing the shape:

index.php?t=getfile&id=2602&private=0

Note that these watches were had engraved. I have different Cartouche ads from 1922 saying that they were available in 14k / 18k / white gold / green gold / plain / hand carved. Depending on the carver the patterns often were individual at that time. The dial from 1922 seems to be a 100% match...

Attachment: 847_movement.jpg
(Size: 164.44KB, Downloaded 965 times)
Attachment: 1922_Cartouche.jpg
(Size: 826.20KB, Downloaded 961 times)

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Thu, 26 November 2015 08:34]

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #6303 is a reply to message #6302]

Thu, 26 November 2015 12:57

Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France

Gruen Master

Thanks Barney for the very useful information.

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Re: 'Cartouche' case with Cal. 849 [message #6304 is a reply to message #6303]

Thu, 26 November 2015 16:22

JackW
Messages: 1949
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

Wow Barney! That is some great info.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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