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| Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6349 is a reply to message #6346] |
Sun, 13 December 2015 10:11   |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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At that time it was very common for jewelers to assemble their own watches. So they often have ordered movements, cases and dials / hands separately and sold these as their watches. This habit changed early 1900 when more and more watch factories were born. Some jewellers changed eariler, some later. For the first 20 years of the Gruen history there were only ads showing the movements, never a complete watch.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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| Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6361 is a reply to message #6359] |
Mon, 14 December 2015 22:15 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Either Gruen did the dial in house on request or it was ordered somewhere else. You are right that the case is in house. This is already a true Gruen watch not a pre 1894 Columbus watch and as a Verithin it is to be dated 1904 or later. Clearly the transition phase when Jewelers started to buy and sell complete watches. I have a number of ads from Mr. Newstedt dating 1915 to 1921 where he offered Gruens with original Gruen dials.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2015 22:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6363 is a reply to message #6361] |
Fri, 18 December 2015 21:01 |
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Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
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Gruen Master |
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Your movement is a cal. V5, which was introduced about 1910 and was an improved version of the the first generation Verithin's called LV1, LV2 & LDG introduced in 1902. The V5 serial numbers started with 450,000 and at least the first 1,000 were still using the pillar plate design of the original "L-series" Verithin.
Whether or not the 17 jewel V4 was introduced the same time as the V5 I'm still researching. The V4 only existed with the new pillar plate design, which the V5 switched to around serial number 451k. The V4 serial numbers also started with 450k suggesting the V4 was launched together with the V5. However there are well informed sources saying that the V4 was launched later as 15 jewel V5 was not competitive enough and Gruen introduced the more competitive 17 jewel V4 movement soon after. This could explain why the V4 was only build with the new pillar plate design. One day I will find the evidence and publish my work. Too many unknowns still...
The lowest V5 serial number I found is 450,158 and the highest is 491,795, suggesting the V5 stopped around 1920-1922 (until I find a higher serial). Based on my database I would date your movement somewhere around 1916-1918. I have a number of V5 and V4's in the 460k range with dates engraved in the case, which is at least good for an indicative dating.
The Wadsworth case serial numbers that I have in my database are corresponding with your case serial. They are all in the range of 316k-318k, considering that Gruen did not "match" case and movement serial numbers.
[Updated on: Fri, 18 December 2015 21:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6364 is a reply to message #6363] |
Fri, 18 December 2015 22:28 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Perfect! Good to hear from a pocket watch expert. My expertise is more in the area of the wristlets...
I only have a very few pocket watches yet.
Thanks for your explanation Thojil!
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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