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Need balance staff and main spring [message #9179] Fri, 17 August 2018 02:38 Go to next message
Johnnymg is currently offline  Johnnymg
Messages: 9
Registered: August 2018
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Hello new here, sorry I do not know model number of this movement. It is a gilded 17j movement open face around a 12s. Recent find at local Goodwill. Movement will need a BS and MS and a cleaning Any help in knowing which part numbers to look for would be helpful. Thanks John

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9180 is a reply to message #9179] Fri, 17 August 2018 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Posting some images of the movement would help to the ID of the watch. That would be a step towards knowing the correct parts to get.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9182 is a reply to message #9179] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnnymg is currently offline  Johnnymg
Messages: 9
Registered: August 2018
Gruen Apprentice
Here is picture of the movement

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3766&private=0

[Updated on: Fri, 17 August 2018 23:19] by Moderator

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9183 is a reply to message #9182] Fri, 17 August 2018 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Hi,

If its in the orginal case.... Guessing a Wadsworth made one, then the caliber # is stamped into it. Should be either a 380 or 385 depending on what size it is. Regardless for the 17 jewel version the staff and mainspring are the same for both models and available from Jules Borel - http://www.julesborel.com/

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9188 is a reply to message #9183] Sat, 18 August 2018 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnnymg is currently offline  Johnnymg
Messages: 9
Registered: August 2018
Gruen Apprentice
No model or caliber.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3768&private=0

[Updated on: Sat, 18 August 2018 04:04] by Moderator

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9189 is a reply to message #9188] Sat, 18 August 2018 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
Messages: 1931
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Location: Denver
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Cool! A solid gold case.

Johnnymg wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 00:41
No model or caliber.
This is what I get for not looking at pocket watches often enough.

I'm sorry for the bad info. I had assumed that the pocket watches also follow the wristwatch convention of the style and movement caliber numbers within the case backs. I went and checked my one and only contemporaneous Gruen pocket watch, also in a Wadsworth case. It too is not marked with the style or caliber.

Learn something new every day....

Regardless, the caliber info above should be correct. Anyone else want to validate this?

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9191 is a reply to message #9189] Sat, 18 August 2018 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
The caliber number is usually stamped under the balance. Should be a caliber 380. This watch is from 1946, the 385 was introduced the following year as far as I know and all 385 based watches I have seen also have a style number stamped in (either 571 for the earlier Wadsworth or 819 for later Keystone cases).

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9192 is a reply to message #9191] Sat, 18 August 2018 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
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I can validate that the balance staff and mainspring are the same between 380 and 385. You can use either one to find what you want.

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9193 is a reply to message #9192] Sat, 18 August 2018 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
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thesnark17 wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 16:42
I can validate that the balance staff and mainspring are the same between 380 and 385. You can use either one to find what you want.
That's a fact.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3769&private=0
  • Attachment: BS.jpg
    (Size: 94.94KB, Downloaded 1192 times)

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9194 is a reply to message #9191] Sat, 18 August 2018 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Barney Green wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 15:13
This watch is from 1946, the 385 was introduced the following year... <snip>
The 385 and 386 are listed in the 1945 Gruen parts guide as "The New Verithin".

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9195 is a reply to message #9194] Sat, 18 August 2018 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Thanks for the info. I have not seen them being used before 1947 yet, but I do not have many samples. Definitely I own one 1946 manufactured watch with a 380 movements in it whereas my earliest 385 is from 1948.
I have not checked very carefully (at least not from under the dial), what the differences between the 380 and the 385 are, they look very much the same(Jack, you mentioned the size is different?). Obvious difference is that all 380/81 movements seem to be gold plated whereas all the 385/386 I have are nickle plated.
So the switch may already have happened early 1946?

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Sat, 18 August 2018 17:55]

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9196 is a reply to message #9195] Sat, 18 August 2018 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Ah, yes, I see, Mr. Ranfft says:
380: 16.75''', 17 jewels
381: 16.75''', 15 jewels
385: 17.5''', 17 jewels
386: 17.5''', 15 jewels
He also mentions that caliber 380/81 were introduced 1939, whereas the 385/86 are mentioned with a 1946 introduction date which would fit the observations. May be the only modification was a wider base plate?
And may be, they coexisted for a while?

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Sat, 18 August 2018 18:00]

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9197 is a reply to message #9195] Sat, 18 August 2018 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnnymg is currently offline  Johnnymg
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Registered: August 2018
Gruen Apprentice
Thank you for all the help and information. Time to order parts.

John

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9198 is a reply to message #9197] Sat, 18 August 2018 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnnymg is currently offline  Johnnymg
Messages: 9
Registered: August 2018
Gruen Apprentice
Would the dials fit either or are they caliber specific? Thanks.

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9199 is a reply to message #9182] Sat, 18 August 2018 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veritas123 is currently offline  veritas123
Messages: 19
Registered: February 2015
Location: Raleigh,NC
Gruen Apprentice
I have both , NOS , in original Gruen packaging. PM me if you are interested.

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9200 is a reply to message #9199] Sat, 18 August 2018 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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here is the listing from the 1945 materials catalog:
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3770&private=0

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Need balance staff and main spring [message #9202 is a reply to message #9200] Sun, 19 August 2018 10:50 Go to previous message
Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Thank you, Jack. so also 380 / 381 are called "The New Gruen VERI-THIN" already. Size of the 385/6 slightly differs from what Mr. Ranfft says, 17.5 vs 17.75 ligne...
Did someone ever see a 385 movement in a G5 Wadsworth case?

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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