| Re: Gruen Verithin Pocket Watch Identification [message #8330 is a reply to message #8329] |
Thu, 17 August 2017 10:13  |
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Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
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Gruen Master |
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That is indeed also a Verithin movement, but an early high grade Verithin Precision "V1", "V2" or "V3". Great stuff, I'm very thrilled to see this add as the date 1906 changes all the assumptions I had on the introduction of the Verithin Precision movements.
The only available information so far was the Charles Cleves dating table showing that the Verithin "V1", "V2", "V3" Precision movements were introduced in 1910. I was always struggling with the introduction date as I kept on finding examples of these movements with the same pillar plate design as the regular Verithin "L" calibers. This was suggesting to me that the Verithin "V" Precision caliber must have been introduced at an earlier date.
A second point I was struggling with could also be explained by your add. These early Verithin "V" Precision movements have the same serial numbers starting with "12". As said Gruen was using a sequential serial numbering covering all the different calibers they were producing since 1902 (early 16 size Precision calibers 56/52/50/21/35 serials 12xxxx). The early Verithin "V" Precision movements serial numbers that I recorded did not "fit in" and should have been produced earlier than 1910. The 124xxx serial in 1906 would align the "V" Precision numbering with the other movement ranges.
Hypothesizing further this could also explain the serial number starting digit change of the regular Verithin "L" calibers from "1" to "3", which must have happened around the same time of the ad in 1906 (maybe 1905) as far as I can tell.
Cal.L Verithin serial 128,112 - Highest serial found with "1"
Cal.L Verithin serial 327,511 - Lowest serial found with "3"
I have found serial 332,282 fitted to a Wadsworth case serial 306,521. Case serials 306,436 and 306,511 are confirmed to be sold to M. Kohler Jewelery Store in 1907 (Gruen invoice dated Sep 12, 1907)
Cal.56 serial 127,101 - Case dated June 1906
Cal.21 serial 127,596 - Case dated 1906
The fact that the regular Verithin "L" as well as the Verithin Precision "V" movement were produced in parallel may have caused issues in production or spare parts ordering. This could have driven the decision to differentiate the caliber series by changing the serial number.
The picture is matching the ad, a Verithin Precision featuring the unique Grossmann designed "moustache" pallet fork, which initially was only used in the larger 16 size Precision calibers 56/52/50/21/35/45.
Here are a couple of pictures showing the evolution of the "V" Precision caliber following the 1st generation. Gruen has been modifying the click design at least two times before the final design (picture serial 141,797). The pillar plate changed around serial number 133,800
Edit : correction of cal. "L" serial numbers M. Kohler invoice
[Updated on: Thu, 12 September 2019 16:25] Report message to a moderator |
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