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Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11428]

Sat, 19 October 2019 01:33

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

No entries for this family of movements yet.
705.

10 1/2 lignes.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5345&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5346&private=0

704.

10 1/2 lignes.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5347&private=0

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Matthias

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11429 is a reply to message #11428]

Sat, 19 October 2019 01:50

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

Yep, we've been very lax about filling in this section. That's why I started filling in some.

Here's the 7 jewel version cal 703:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5348&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5348&private=0

also this 7j cal 700:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5349&private=0

Attachment: Gruen cal 703.jpg
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Attachment: Gruen cal 700 - 7j.jpg
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"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Sat, 19 October 2019 02:09]

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11435 is a reply to message #11429]

Sat, 19 October 2019 04:23

Gary
Messages: 2164
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Nice! Look at naked bridge on that 700, Laughing

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11436 is a reply to message #11429]

Sat, 19 October 2019 04:34

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Thank you for your additions here, that is great!

As always it brings up questions for me. Confused

In the material catalog it references cal 700 as 7j.
But there are easily found examples, one on ebay right now, of 15j cal 700.
Is this when they are transitioning from 15j 701 to 7j 700?
Does that make sense?
No worries if not sure, the Gruen mysteries abound...

Matthias

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11437 is a reply to message #11435]

Sat, 19 October 2019 04:42

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

Right!
Quality went right out the door on that one. Laughing

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Sat, 19 October 2019 04:42]

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11438 is a reply to message #11436]

Sat, 19 October 2019 04:46

timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California

Gruen Master

I think they had a bunch already stamped "700" and were using them up.

"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #11444 is a reply to message #11438]

Sat, 19 October 2019 18:44

JackW
Messages: 1976
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

Need to see the dial side on the movement, please.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #14142 is a reply to message #11444]

Sun, 20 December 2020 23:31

JackW
Messages: 1976
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

Here is dial side, since no one has posted it.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7422&private=0

Bridge style between the 700 and 702 are different than the 703-705, but the keyless works are seemingly identical per the entry in the 1945 parts catalog
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7421&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7421&private=0

Of note, Barnett's Green Book indicates that these were introduced in 1939. Online he says 1935. I'd say closer to 1931 for the 700. These are not listed in the 1929/30 movement catalog so that is a lower bound if taken literally. Models with this base caliber start to show up in adverts about 1931/32. I think my movement is 1933/34 as that is the time it was 1st advertised as the 'Master' (Thanks Bernd for the ID).

Attachment: 1945catalog.jpg
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Attachment: Cal_704_dialside.jpg
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[Updated on: Sun, 20 December 2020 23:32]

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #14144 is a reply to message #14142]

Mon, 21 December 2020 03:26

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Hello, Jack! Great to hear from you! Good info, too.

I’m not sure which of the family came first. Most of my examples are 705. Wadsworth house 8mm nickel cases from 1930-32. They may have appeared as early as 1928 or 9. Here’s my earliest Gruen wadsworth 705 case: 5375963. It could still be later, as I believe the Gruen wadsworth numbers beyond 5.3mm stretched out longer than current theories. This one is marked unadjusted, while the earliest 8mm 705 nickels still have 2 adj.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7423&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7423&private=0

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #14145 is a reply to message #14144]

Mon, 21 December 2020 03:57

JackW
Messages: 1976
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

Case wrote on Sun, 20 December 2020 20:26

I’m not sure which of the family came first. Most of my examples are 705. Wadsworth house 8mm nickel cases from 1930-32.

Not sure what came first either. I think the 700 series was a response to the deepening depression to make an inexpensive watch... flat HS and 7 jewels, going up. What I have noted on timing is that some have 'Guild' some have 'Gruen Guild' and some (seemingly more recently) drop the 'Guild' marking. Some are marked with the hairspring material 'Conoruma' which I think you guys sussed out has a start date, and some are not marked.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 December 2020 03:58]

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #14240 is a reply to message #14144]

Mon, 04 January 2021 17:42

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

For reference:.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7497&private=0

Attachment: Lavina_werbung_F.H._1._Mai_1935 (2).jpg
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Matthias

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Re: Calibre 705 and 704 [message #14367 is a reply to message #14240]

Sun, 17 January 2021 20:27

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Here we go, a lot clearer reference. And shows relation to cal 707.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7637&private=0

Attachment: 20210116_130630.jpg
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Matthias

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