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Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17006] Tue, 19 July 2022 17:59 Go to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Model name: Gruen Superior Verithin
Type: Pocket Watch
Period/date: 1900-1910, perhaps 1906-1907
Gender: Men's

Case Maker: Wadsworth
Case Material: 25 yr Gold Filled Amer. Made
Case Serial: 308892
Case Style no: n/a

Caliber: LV2, 16j, with swan neck regulator
Movement Maker: Gruen (unsigned)
Movement Serial: 330600 ?

Other info: I am not usually a pocket watch guy, but the Superior Verithin movement is an odd bird. Looking back, I've seen exactly 6. None captured on the forum so far (I think), and only a few oblique references. I'm hoping folks may have seen more & have more info. Only seller pics for now (with permission).

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9636&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9633&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9635&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9637&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9634&private=0
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[Updated on: Tue, 19 July 2022 17:59]

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17008 is a reply to message #17006] Tue, 19 July 2022 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Even though I bid on this one there's something I'm noticing now that I didn't before. The dial. Is that a "ATCH" for "WATCH"? I'm not normally a pocket watch guy either & making this comment without any cross referencing, so could be way wrong but...but seems to me that's a rare thing for a dial...What are your thoughts Case?

Matthias

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17009 is a reply to message #17008] Tue, 19 July 2022 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Yes, I noticed the same thing. I expect that there was even a "SUPERIOR WATCH" written on the dial.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17010 is a reply to message #17009] Tue, 19 July 2022 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
I was thinking "GRUEN WATCH" but your theory makes more sense and would properly fit the space on dial.

Matthias

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17011 is a reply to message #17010] Tue, 19 July 2022 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Here's another look, with a filter. Perhaps Verithin Watch? I'm particularly interested in what's in the banner below.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9643&private=0
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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17014 is a reply to message #17011] Tue, 19 July 2022 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
It's 'Verithin Watch'. I can make out V.RI..IN from a different photo. There was text below, but I could not make it out. I suspect a jeweler's name, myself, but there's space for Superior or Gruen.

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17018 is a reply to message #17014] Wed, 20 July 2022 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
Messages: 1331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Gruen Authority
I don't recall ever noticing the word "watch" engraved on a movement either. Department of redundancy department. I could have told you I wasn't looking at a Superior Verithin shoe.

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17020 is a reply to message #17018] Wed, 20 July 2022 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Ah, yes, the LV2 "Superior Verithin Watch" movements... Not all LV2s are superior, though most are; the cutoff for the marking is 332,500. After that, they are merely Verithin.

LV1s can also be marked "Verithin Watch", and usually are between 328k and 338k.

Some late LV2s carry an even more redundant mark: Gruen Watch Co. Verithin Verithin. It's a result of adding the normal V4 Verithin stamp to a movement that already has Verithin in script.

[Updated on: Wed, 20 July 2022 18:18]

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17029 is a reply to message #17020] Thu, 21 July 2022 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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The watch arrived today. Hope to get better pics soon. “Verithin Watch” is the top dial banner; alas, the bottom banner is totally illegible. Perhaps the forensic lighting kit will need to come out!

One oddity you’ll notice in the pics above: the 3 etched Roman numerals on the cuvette do not match the last 3 of the box or caseback (which match each other). A first for me. And yet the hinge is pristine, with perfect matching hue to all the case exterior. Head scratcher! What gives?

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17038 is a reply to message #17029] Thu, 21 July 2022 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1904
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Factory error or some issue when assembling it together?

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17106 is a reply to message #17029] Tue, 02 August 2022 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Hey, I really really don't wanna distract from the main subject here of "SUPERIOR" but I came across a rare dial that has 'PRECISON WATCH' on it, thought it was interesting. lmk if u want to see movement & thanks for letting me go on this tangent. Smile



/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9735&private=0

Matthias

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17107 is a reply to message #17106] Tue, 02 August 2022 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Definitely interested in seeing it! I believe it will be a Fortschritt movement, based in the dial signature.

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17108 is a reply to message #17107] Wed, 03 August 2022 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Haha! Can't pull the wool over your eyes. It is.


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9736&private=0



Been awhile since I reminded myself of the "Progress" movement, worth sharing again, very special movements. And yes! I was surprised to be reminded of all the "WATCH" font you see on the dials.

https://www.glashuetteuhren.de/die-uhrenfabriken/j-assmann-g lashuette-i-sa-deutsche-anker-uhren-fabrik-1/gruenschen-uhre nfabrikation-gruen-und-assmann/




And some interesting tidbits here for those that haven't read.


https://www.thenakedwatchmaker.com/blog/2020/8/13/a-gruen-am p-sons-precision-pocket-watch-movement

Matthias

[Updated on: Wed, 03 August 2022 00:44]

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17111 is a reply to message #17108] Wed, 03 August 2022 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Tangents always most welcome! Esp of the Assman varietal

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17112 is a reply to message #17111] Wed, 03 August 2022 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
One day, I will own one of those. I really admire Progress, even if sometimes it doesn't seem to go anywhere.

Gruen used the escapement design on the V1/2/3 Verithin, so it didn't completely dead-end. But I have never seen it anywhere else. I have wondered why, since it does seem to have advantages.

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17113 is a reply to message #17112] Wed, 03 August 2022 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
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Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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“The only perfect escapement” Cool

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17114 is a reply to message #17113] Wed, 03 August 2022 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
So steering this back on track.....at about what serial does the 'Verithin' font change? I'm looking at this Verithin sn 340691, non Superior, but the placement and script are a big change.


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9737&private=0

Matthias

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17116 is a reply to message #17114] Thu, 04 August 2022 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 654
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
It never changes. Some late movements have partial or complete markings of the V4, but they all have the old marking as well. My suspicion is that some of the later movements were re-marked.

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Re: Gruen Superior Verithin (LV) [message #17119 is a reply to message #17116] Fri, 05 August 2022 04:49 Go to previous message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Yes, the “Superior Verithin” logo markings on the movement were completely different than regular LV2 Verithins in styling & location/orientation, but they ran concurrently. Even the balance cock markings are different. Makes it nigh impossible to rebuild one.

I think all data supports what Alex was saying: these ones with 340k sn look to have been partial movements finished later... near the end, for the LV. Perhaps earmarked for a Superior run that never happened, they are not Superior Verithins IMO. They have swan neck regulators (curious about the different balance cock engraving), but they all have the regular Verithin bridge marks and are only adjusted to 4 positions. That’s an oddly low number for a Gruen watch with such a regulator.

Are these transitional ones the only LVs actually signed “Gruen” on the movement?


Btw, update on my watch. Different lighting seems to show the bottom banner on my dial may have said “Superior”. So “Verithin Watch” “Superior”. Basically, a non-stylized version of what’s seen on the ceramic dial ones...

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9746&private=0

This Superior Verithin logo looks to me like the genesis of the Gruen Precision and standard Verithin logo used shortly after. What are thoughts on the evolution?

[Updated on: Fri, 05 August 2022 04:52]

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