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Strap 570

"Veri-Thin Pan American"; Mon, 03 October 2022 04:43

Gruens have many dial variants, so that's one reason we ID a Gruen by it's case. But what about when the watchcase looks like this?


No doubt a genuine model based off this photo from my copy of "Masterbook" (Flex bracelet dates to later period)


Did Gruen just slap on a diff dial on a Pan Am Ace case n call it good? Probably!

But the point of this post is to assign a name to my watch. This watch has an inscription with a date:1948.

First one I find with my model is August 1948. "Gruen Veri-Thin Pan American" Interesting but I too thought it must be a mistake.


Thought:1948 is a year that Gruen was the official timepiece of Pan American Airways.

Second ad is in June 48 for Father's Day sale.


Thought: While most Pan Ams are Veri-Thins, they are seldom advertised or classified this way. It usually goes in order Gruen Pan American "Ace". They keep calling Strap 570 model "Veri-Thin Pan American".

Third ad is June 1948 Father's Day again, wait is this a National ad campaign?


Normally three separate ads is enough for me to accept a Gruen Watch model name. But I'm STILL skeptical but important clue in that last ad; Esquire. Yes, Strap 570 featured in a nation wide ad campaign. What is the name of my watch?

Model Identification and discussion | 4 comments

The birth of the XL Cartouche -- and a new supplier!

The story of the Mantouche; Mon, 26 September 2022 14:09

Hi all--I'd like to tell a story about the launch of my favorite Gruen line. It is "a" story, not "the" story, and I welcome all builds. Many of you may have more info that I've not yet encountered. And some of you have watches that could tell us even more!

Whether you call them fantasy watches, XL Cartouches, or Mantouches (okay, maybe just me Very Happy ), this is by far my favorite Gruen lineup. My personal Grail is among them. All of them are in import cases: whether silver or gold, these came over as complete watches. But their short life is in a dark period for us. Let's shed a little light!

PART 1: A New Supplier
The XL Cartouche was first launched in 1919. No examples are present in the 2nd edition of WCOW, which was printed in early August 1918. The first example I've found appears in an ad from the Saturday Evening Post on Dec 13, 1919, and from other documents we can be sure these models were already on hand at retailers before advertising began. It appears the introduction focused only on ladies' models (ribbon strap).

The first ad shows one model, with a unique fantasy dial. The name Cartouche is not yet in play--that would come two years later--and it is simply called the "new Gruen Rectangular Wrist Watch."


The dial is indeed very unique, and from it we can finally know the source of these watches! Let's rewind back to 1918: in that year's Davoine we first see a group of new designs for the firm of Perret & Berthoud, from Locle (yes, there's another "L" here). I had my two year old circle one that looks familiar Laughing


Putting them side by side, you will see that they are identical, even to the crown always being pulled out into setting position for the electro!


But this is not the only example we can identify. Although few Gruen ads from the time feature these watches, here is another in the May 1920 Canadian Magazine, and it also is identical to one shown by P&B.


From this, I propose that these were--at least, originally--sourced directly from Perret & Berthoud.

Research | 13 comments

Inherited Watch Identification and Valuation Info Requested

Ladies Precision 17 Jewels ; Thu, 15 September 2022 20:51

Good afternoon,
This watch was inherited from my Great Aunt in 2002. I am interested in identification and valuation of the piece, and I am not familiar with these processes.

Model name:

Case Maker:Gruen
Case Material:14k Gold (If I am understanding the stamps correctly)
Case Serial:
Case Style no: 668

Movement Maker: Gruen
Movement Serial: B947870


Other info:

Edited by admin: correction showing pictures in message

Model Identification and discussion | 2 comments

Gruen Dive Watch

Thu, 15 September 2022 18:28

I am trying to identify the model of this Gruen "Dive" watch.

It is marked on the face:

The rear outer case is marked:
All Stainless Steel
Swiss Made
Waterproof20 ATM

The inner rear case is unmarked.

It has a Gruen Caliber AS 1700 movement. I do not have the movement serial number.

The reason I am looking to precisely identify this watch model is that I have lost the watch bezel as you can see in the second picture. I think knowing the exact model may help in finding a replacement bezel

Thank you in advance for your assistance.



Model Identification and discussion | 4 comments

Gruen Unknown - Please help identify

Unknown Gruen mens watch - 60's? 70's?; Thu, 15 September 2022 00:57

Model name: Gruen
Type: Mens - gold tone
Period/date: 60-70's
Gender: Mens

Case Maker: Gruen?
Case Material: Steel/gold tone
Case Serial: n/a
Case Style no: n/a

Caliber: 17 Jewels
Movement Maker: Gruen - self winding
Movement Serial: too small to read

Bracelet: none - purchased from online auction

Other info: Running - Self Winding - day/date




Model Identification and discussion | 8 comments

What does the "F" mean?

Fri, 09 September 2022 23:12




New stamp to me. A 99 usually indicates the calibre,indeed a cal 99 here.
But 99F? What in the world does the "F" mean, denote, stand for, or indicate?

Any takers?

Research | 5 comments

Patent 97101

Crown wheel design; Fri, 09 September 2022 13:59

Good day, all, and happy Friday,

Has anyone succeeded in researching patent 97101? According to , this patent, issued 1922, protects the design of the then novel crown wheel core.

I'm wondering specifically if the patent was renewed, abandoned, licensed, or infringed upon. From what I've read, Swiss patents may be renewed up to 20 years, but an application for renewal must be submitted before each expiry. Thus, if it had been renewed up to this limit, it would have been protected until at most 1942.

Attached below is the little information I've found on this patent, an excerpt found in Google Books. If I'm interpreting this correctly, the below excerpt may show a license assignment to Roskopf. (From Patent-Liste: 1924, 1 - 24. Switzerland, Eidgenöss. Amt, 1924.)

Best wishes!


Research | 4 comments

Origin of "Crown Guard"

Thu, 01 September 2022 18:21

Hi all--hoping this is of interest. In September 1927, Carl Beiser (of Tank fame) filed the patent for the "Crown Guard" case, which was finally approved in October 1930 as US1779407.

Inspiration comes from many sources... Including, I think, from the Official Register of Swiss Commerce. Comes Movado in 1926. The second looks especially Quadron. And enjoy the fact that the clerk published it upside down!




Research | 6 comments

My first Gruen

Its a start; Thu, 01 September 2022 16:22

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9848&private=0[img]/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9848&private=0[/img]/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9847&private=0[img]/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9847&private=0[/img]/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9846&private=0Hi,At one time I collected Raymond Weil used watches. I like the slightly unusaul shapes and the smaller cases. I have small wrists so anything over 36mm looks like an alarm clock.
Anyway I was looking on ebay USA and came acrocc vintage watches. I was taken by the shapes. These watches have soul and character. Also they are smaller than the modern watches.
I came across a Gruen Veri-thin which looked in mint condition. I managed to get the seller down to just over $130.00. I dont know if I paid too much but I liked the watch and the condition was great. It came without a strap so I fitted a blue genuine Ostrich leg strap.
I just love this watch and cant wait to get my nest Gruen. jack

Watch Tables | 4 comments

Gruen precision auto wind

UFO watch?; Thu, 18 August 2022 15:38

Found this watch in a box of old watches. Intrigued me, so I researched a little. Unfortunately there isn’t much available (with my limited skills). I perused this forum for a while and didn’t see it referenced, so I figured I would ask.

I will post a picture, I look forward to your expertise. I have been wearing it for a few days and it seems to keep time fairly well



Model Identification and discussion | 4 comments

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