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The caliber 839 [message #2943]

Sun, 09 February 2014 21:36

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

The Gruen 839 movement is probably an inhouse movement from around 1921. It has 18 jewels and is a Gruen Precision Extra grade. It is 6 ligne.

Seller's photos. Will change them when movement arrives.
index.php?t=getfile&id=1154&private=0

Attachment: 839 movement.jpg
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Attachment: 839 movement dial side.jpg
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You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #12552 is a reply to message #2943]

Fri, 12 June 2020 03:26

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

This movement fascinates me... keep coming back to it, as I’ve never seen one like it.

Just ran across item 371555674969 in the swamp. Siva, a Marc Favre brand. Can’t see works. Could 839 be a Favre ebauche finished at the Precision Factory?

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #12679 is a reply to message #12552]

Mon, 22 June 2020 20:22

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Even better match for the 839: Paul Ditisheim 18J, swamp item 133440866760; close sn to Jenneke’s.

Looking around, the setting mechanism on other Solvils is really close. Here’s one on a 17J: 133385835486

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #12938 is a reply to message #12679]

Sun, 26 July 2020 12:11

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

I would say that that siva movement is a caliber 843, not a 839.

The solvils you mentioned are gone, but others look very different on the dial side. Dunno if I would call it a match.

left to the caliber number on my movement there is a character. J?

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #12942 is a reply to message #12938]

Mon, 27 July 2020 00:14

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Yes, I did not see an exact match on the myriad other Solvils, just some similarities.

I don’t have any way to view the 843. Just working with the 1926 parts catalog & later ones. Assuming I’d need 1921 or the 1926 sup B?

RE: J, I also note an obscured letter on your dial side opposite the stem. Could be a J or a U? Also appears to have a few other light numbers near the hour wheel. Fascinating movement!

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #12945 is a reply to message #12942]

Mon, 27 July 2020 13:57

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Sub B

I will try if i can clean it a bit with silver polish. Wont remove parts because I am not sure if I can reassemble it Rolling Eyes

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Mon, 27 July 2020 14:08]

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13520 is a reply to message #12945]

Fri, 28 August 2020 05:34

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Here’s Paul Ditisheim’s version. Whadaya think? 😁

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6965&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6964&private=0

Attachment: 4717142C-3D71-4131-B42B-CF43F2E32C82.jpeg
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Attachment: 1D7F0F5A-1FE6-477F-A721-8EC00A532548.jpeg
(Size: 544.64KB, Downloaded 633 times)

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13521 is a reply to message #13520]

Fri, 28 August 2020 07:55

Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Match!

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13522 is a reply to message #13521]

Fri, 28 August 2020 12:38

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Same, whow. Nice find. same ebauche maker or it is the maker?

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6966&private=0

Attachment: 62213FB2-3EAF-4A0E-B839-D81ED1079467.jpeg
(Size: 162.30KB, Downloaded 667 times)

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13523 is a reply to message #13522]

Fri, 28 August 2020 13:53

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

I still think it’s a Favre base caliber, but the stamp on the main plate is intriguing, to know if there’s a different ebauche supplier.

As far as who supplied to Gruen, stay tuned. The exact sn placement/orientation/font on this P. Ditty is pretty convincing, but I just got another EP grade Gruen caliber that I think is Favre in house—close serial numbers. Let me get plate pics for it

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13524 is a reply to message #13523]

Fri, 28 August 2020 14:17

Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Favre is really turning out to be a major ebauche supplier. That's a unique funny take on the name there Dan, a Sean Combs ebauche. Very Happy

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13527 is a reply to message #13524]

Fri, 28 August 2020 16:18

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

GaryM wrote on Fri, 28 August 2020 10:17

...That's a unique funny take on the name there Dan, a Sean Combs ebauche.

😜

One last detail, with no immediate conclusion: this has an American Art Enamelers dial (like my 610), stamped “1562” & etched “36”. Again, no implication now, but capturing breadcrumbs.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6971&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6971&private=0

Attachment: 44DC668B-EBF6-46D7-8D57-212AF948148F.jpeg
(Size: 512.82KB, Downloaded 639 times)

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13530 is a reply to message #13527]

Fri, 28 August 2020 17:47

Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

An American Art Enamelers dial + Precision movement could = Katz & Ogush. Being AAE and K&O were on the same avenue, could have made Jenneke's movement one of those platinum cased watches.

BTW- Could that tarnish be of gold substance, how odd?

[Updated on: Fri, 28 August 2020 17:47]

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13533 is a reply to message #13530]

Fri, 28 August 2020 19:04

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Must be one that had a gold case (or platinum). On the search for a watch that could fit this movement. This?
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6973&private=0

Attachment: 29F3F65A-6129-4F96-BDFE-2F8CBDDA1766.jpeg
(Size: 556.27KB, Downloaded 586 times)

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13537 is a reply to message #13533]

Fri, 28 August 2020 19:33

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

I have always wanted to know the casemaker for the gold and platinum watch you are showing here Jenneke. Just going by eye I thought it could be supplied by Werthmüller Frères.

Matthias

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13545 is a reply to message #13537]

Fri, 28 August 2020 21:15

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

I, too, think it would’ve been in a platinum/diamond or gold case.

Jenneke’s pic is a contender. It could’ve also been a similar model to the diamond/platinum wristlets in 17/18 Guild books, although her model would need to be a few years later. Those are all 7-8 ligne in 1917, and mine above (not Gruen) has a rectangular dial.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #13569 is a reply to message #13545]

Mon, 31 August 2020 17:47

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Circling back on supplier in this thread, the markings on the 840
[url=https://vintagegruen.org/vgforum/index.php?t=msg&go to=13564&#msg_13564]here[/url] would suggest Favre supplied Gruen & PD. The PD is a different bridge layout, close to the Siva I shared, which doesn’t match Gruen’s (maybe unique for them)

I’ll also note the PD may be a year or 2 earlier than Jenneke’s. He was at ~325k when the 1922 tariff stamps show up.

[Updated on: Sun, 13 February 2022 16:28] by Moderator

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #14392 is a reply to message #13569]

Thu, 21 January 2021 05:20

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Jenneke—what could yours have looked like? Be sure to scroll through to pic 12...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282178078312

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Re: The caliber 839 [message #14399 is a reply to message #14392]

Fri, 22 January 2021 20:57

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Well... that is the kind of watch that is still on my watch list. Diamond are a girl’s best friend.

Definitely a variant of the same movement. Sharp eyes!

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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