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Wristlet ??? [message #389] Tue, 28 May 2013 21:20 Go to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Model name : ??? (plate 24E???)
Type : wristlet
Period/date : ??? (1915 - 1925)
Gender : ladies

Case Maker : Gruen (cincinnati)
Case Material : 14 K.G.
Case Serial : 1022596
Case Style no : -

Caliber : 640 (10 1/2 L, 2 adj 15 jewels)
Movement Maker : ??? (Factory R) Surprised
Movement Serial: -

Bracelet : -

Other info :

index.php?t=getfile&id=208&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=209&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=210&private=0

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2020 17:18]

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #405 is a reply to message #389] Thu, 30 May 2013 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
Gruen Master
"Factory R". Fantastic, to me a new mystery manufacturer that I haven't seen so far. Most of them have been identified by now, except "Factory V".

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #406 is a reply to message #405] Thu, 30 May 2013 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C. Hurt is currently offline  C. Hurt
Messages: 243
Registered: May 2013
Gruen Guildsman
Thojil wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 04:36
"Factory R". Fantastic, to me a new mystery manufacturer that I haven't seen so far. Most of them have been identified by now, except "Factory V".


I thought "V" was Villeret. If not, maybe "R" is Villeret's alter-ego, Rayville. Maybe.

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #407 is a reply to message #406] Thu, 30 May 2013 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Jenneke, Do you have a shot of the pillar plate? Do you know the caliber number? 'R' is a new one to me too. Interesting.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #408 is a reply to message #406] Thu, 30 May 2013 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
Gruen Master
What I have found in Blancpain historical data is that Blancpain-Villeret was renamed into Rayville-Blancpain in June 1933, which looks to be a good 10-15 years after this wristlet was produced.

I agree that "Factory V" could be referring to Blancpain-Villeret however again according to their own historical data they didn't start supplying to Gruen until the mid 30's, which isn't matching with the calibers that carry this signature.

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #409 is a reply to message #408] Thu, 30 May 2013 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
I gave this watch to my mum about one week ago. Running fine. At that time I had not looked inside. Two days ago she dropped it on the bathroom floor. Shocked After that it is running like crap. So, I opened the case and found out that "Gold colored" was solid gold Smile and that it was of an unknown factory! Surprise.

Quote:
Most of them have been identified by now,

Factory D still has to be identified (see VWF)!

Quote:
Do you have a shot of the pillar plate?

You mean that part under the dial? No, but I think it will go to a watchmaker. Can try if he if willing to make a picture.

Quote:
Do you know the caliber number?

No, that is why it is in de Identification forum Very Happy
I do not see a caliber number and can't match it with movements in the Gruen material catalogues. I hoped some (one?) of you would recognize it. R for Rolex? Rolling Eyes

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #410 is a reply to message #409] Thu, 30 May 2013 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Jenneke wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 18:21
R for Rolex? Rolling Eyes

You should roll your eyes. No.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #432 is a reply to message #410] Fri, 31 May 2013 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
Gruen Master
I'm stranded in Frankfurt airport for 5 hours waiting for my connecting flight to Geneva Sad So to make good use of otherwise lost time I did some more digging into this factory letter mystery.

I looked again at all the companies that were part of the Union Horlogère in the period that Gruen was also a member of this joint venture and found the movement manufacturer Robert Frères, Villeret (from 1929 Minerva SA).

Given the letter logic for all the other confirmed movement suppliers, I'm pretty confident that we can assume that "Factory R" is Robert Frères, Villeret.

I recall that Robert Frères was previously suggested for "Factory D" however your movement find makes this assumption less likely to me now. There was however an ebauche manufacturer called "Duret & Colonnaz, Geneve" that was also a member of the Union Horlogère. Maybe this company is "Factory D"?

[Updated on: Fri, 31 May 2013 18:04]

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #433 is a reply to message #432] Fri, 31 May 2013 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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It wasn't Robert Frères suggested for factory 'D' it was Font Roberts a branch of Fontainemelon. It looks like Robert Frères is a different company completely. I think you might be on to something with this connection. Are there similar movements?

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #444 is a reply to message #432] Fri, 31 May 2013 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bazzab is currently offline  Bazzab
Messages: 181
Registered: May 2013
Location: Tampa Bay Fl
Gruen Guildsman
Thojil wrote on Fri, 31 May 2013 17:50
I'm stranded in Frankfurt airport for 5 hours waiting for my connecting flight to Geneva Sad So to make good use of otherwise lost time I did some more digging into this factory letter mystery.

I looked again at all the companies that were part of the Union Horlogère in the period that Gruen was also a member of this joint venture and found the movement manufacturer Robert Frères, Villeret (from 1929 Minerva SA).

Given the letter logic for all the other confirmed movement suppliers, I'm pretty confident that we can assume that "Factory R" is Robert Frères, Villeret.

I recall that Robert Frères was previously suggested for "Factory D" however your movement find makes this assumption less likely to me now. There was however an ebauche manufacturer called "Duret & Colonnaz, Geneve" that was also a member of the Union Horlogère. Maybe this company is "Factory D"?


I really hope you get stuck in Airports more often, because this is fantastic stuff
Well Done! Great research!
B

http://www.watchesoftheguild.com/

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #445 is a reply to message #444] Fri, 31 May 2013 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Here is the post of WUS where Dr. Ranfft posts about Font Roberts:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/any-gruen-103-620-out-there -767146.html
http://www.ranfft.de/bidfun/katb/2uswk/FHF_Robert_8.jpg

Here is the one from eBay that is marked as "Factory D"
index.php?t=getfile&id=225&private=0

What Dr. R. shows is slightly smaller, but there is more than just a passing similarity to the two movements. Hence this is my basis for associating Factory 'D' with Font Roberts.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #469 is a reply to message #445] Sat, 01 June 2013 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
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Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Looking all over the internet but can't find good pictures/patents of movements from Robert Frères (minverva/montblanc).

Did find a modern one (62-00) that is inspired on the old models. This one has some resemblance with the unknown Factory R movement.

index.php?t=getfile&id=226&private=0

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Sat, 01 June 2013 09:12]

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #1713 is a reply to message #469] Tue, 01 October 2013 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Quote:
Do you have a shot of the pillar plate?


Not from my watch, but there is one on ebay that is very similar (not having factory R)! See item: 190901393235

Any new thoughts?

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #1722 is a reply to message #1713] Tue, 01 October 2013 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
Gruen Master
Looks like a match to me. If the dial is right then the movement is a cal 640. I have quite a few pocket watches from the same era where the caliber is stamped in the dial back.

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Re: Wristlet ??? [message #2243 is a reply to message #1722] Fri, 29 November 2013 23:04 Go to previous message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
I bought that spare movement from my Gruen 2013 contest prize money! Hope to find a clue under the main or barrel bridge for the maker of the caliber 640...

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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