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Home » The Gruen Model Database » 1910's and prior » Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch (Gruen Veri-Thin)
Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6346] Sat, 12 December 2015 22:47 Go to next message
GaryM
Messages: 2163
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Model name : Pocket Watch
Type : Veri-Thin
Period/date :1916-1918
Gender :Male

Case Maker :Wadsworth
Case Material :Gold Fill
Case Serial : 318260
Case Style no :Open

Caliber :V5
Movement Maker :Gruen Precision 15 jewels
Movement Serial: 461283

Bracelet :N/A

Other info : I need to get better pictures, I suck at taking pictures on the go. This watch is for sale at the local antique shop. Geo Newstedt had a local jewelry store in Cincinnati. So Gruen made local jewelers brand watches with their logo?

index.php?t=getfile&id=2610&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=2611&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=2612&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=2613&private=0

[Updated on: Sat, 19 December 2015 00:18]

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Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6349 is a reply to message #6346] Sun, 13 December 2015 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1722
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
At that time it was very common for jewelers to assemble their own watches. So they often have ordered movements, cases and dials / hands separately and sold these as their watches. This habit changed early 1900 when more and more watch factories were born. Some jewellers changed eariler, some later. For the first 20 years of the Gruen history there were only ads showing the movements, never a complete watch.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6351 is a reply to message #6349] Sun, 13 December 2015 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GaryM
Messages: 2163
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Barney Green wrote on Sun, 13 December 2015 10:11
For the first 20 years of the Gruen history there were only ads showing the movements, never a complete watch.

Thanks Bernd! I learn something new everyday.
Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6359 is a reply to message #6351] Mon, 14 December 2015 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
Messages: 1262
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Gruen Authority
Though this is clearly a factory cased watch. The case is marked Verithin.

I get the sense that Gruen was quite willing to accommodate custom requests back then.
Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6361 is a reply to message #6359] Mon, 14 December 2015 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1722
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Either Gruen did the dial in house on request or it was ordered somewhere else. You are right that the case is in house. This is already a true Gruen watch not a pre 1894 Columbus watch and as a Verithin it is to be dated 1904 or later. Clearly the transition phase when Jewelers started to buy and sell complete watches. I have a number of ads from Mr. Newstedt dating 1915 to 1921 where he offered Gruens with original Gruen dials.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2015 22:24]

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Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6363 is a reply to message #6361] Fri, 18 December 2015 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
Messages: 665
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
Gruen Master
Your movement is a cal. V5, which was introduced about 1910 and was an improved version of the the first generation Verithin's called LV1, LV2 & LDG introduced in 1902. The V5 serial numbers started with 450,000 and at least the first 1,000 were still using the pillar plate design of the original "L-series" Verithin.

Whether or not the 17 jewel V4 was introduced the same time as the V5 I'm still researching. The V4 only existed with the new pillar plate design, which the V5 switched to around serial number 451k. The V4 serial numbers also started with 450k suggesting the V4 was launched together with the V5. However there are well informed sources saying that the V4 was launched later as 15 jewel V5 was not competitive enough and Gruen introduced the more competitive 17 jewel V4 movement soon after. This could explain why the V4 was only build with the new pillar plate design. One day I will find the evidence and publish my work. Too many unknowns still...

The lowest V5 serial number I found is 450,158 and the highest is 491,795, suggesting the V5 stopped around 1920-1922 (until I find a higher serial). Based on my database I would date your movement somewhere around 1916-1918. I have a number of V5 and V4's in the 460k range with dates engraved in the case, which is at least good for an indicative dating.

The Wadsworth case serial numbers that I have in my database are corresponding with your case serial. They are all in the range of 316k-318k, considering that Gruen did not "match" case and movement serial numbers.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 December 2015 21:06]

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Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6364 is a reply to message #6363] Fri, 18 December 2015 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1722
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Perfect! Good to hear from a pocket watch expert. My expertise is more in the area of the wristlets...
I only have a very few pocket watches yet.
Thanks for your explanation Thojil!


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Geo H Newstedt Pocket Watch [message #6365 is a reply to message #6364] Sat, 19 December 2015 00:21 Go to previous message
GaryM
Messages: 2163
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Yes, really good information on these early pocket watches. Thanks Thojil!
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