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Star supreme [message #7062] Wed, 13 July 2016 20:49 Go to next message
harogut is currently offline  harogut
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2016
Location: Athens, Georgia
Gruen Apprentice
index.php?t=getfile&id=2920&private=0Hello everyone, my name is Harold, I am new to this forum, and I thought I would start things off by asking for some information?
This is what I have:
Gruen 21
Manual wind
approx. 1950s
Men's
Cased and timed by Gruen Watch Co. J w/ arrowindex.php?t=getfile&id=2919&private=0 through it.
10k gold filled

J43847, 335 752

Any info provided would be greatly appreciated.
index.php?t=getfile&id=2919&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=2921&private=0

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 21:17] by Moderator

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Re: Gruen watch [message #7064 is a reply to message #7062] Wed, 13 July 2016 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Gruen Master
Hi, Harold...Welcome to the forum!

You have a nice example of the model 753.
Case maker is Jonell (J w/arrow).
If I remember correctly, the caliber 335 was the first caliber fully produced in Cincinnati
and sadly, one of the last before closing up shop in the US.


"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2016 21:49]

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Re: Gruen watch [message #7065 is a reply to message #7062] Wed, 13 July 2016 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Hi Harold,

welcome to the forum. What you have there is the Gruen Star Supreme, a 21-jewel watch made in Cincinnati, introduced in 1951. Distinguisehd modern design in a gold filled case made by the Jonell Watch Case Company in New York.
It was available in white gold with white or black dial, or as yours in yellow gold with a white two tone dial. Introductory price in October 1951 was $62.50, later it did cost $71.50. It was part of the first All-Star series in 1951. It was very likely replaced in 1952 by the All-Star 12 which looked very similar with smaller lugs and a checkered dial.

Barney



Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Gruen watch [message #7066 is a reply to message #7065] Wed, 13 July 2016 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Hi Liz,

Model 753? it took me a bit longer to ID the watch, so I did not see your reply before posting.

Barney


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2016 21:53]

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Re: Gruen watch [message #7068 is a reply to message #7065] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harogut is currently offline  harogut
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2016
Location: Athens, Georgia
Gruen Apprentice
Well,
You guys are truly the "Gruen Gurus". Thank you so much. I have several more to share with you all, so I'll eventually list them.
Re: Gruen watch [message #7069 is a reply to message #7068] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harogut is currently offline  harogut
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2016
Location: Athens, Georgia
Gruen Apprentice
Its too bad the new proprieters of Gruen thought that all of the records that were on file were of no value to them, and they became lost. Shame on them.
Re: Gruen watch [message #7070 is a reply to message #7069] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Yes, but without the riddles that are now with each watch it would be much less fun.

And please list the other watches whenever you have the time to do so.


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Gruen watch [message #7072 is a reply to message #7068] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Gruen Master
Hi, Barney,

Yep... 753...correct dial and all.

Not to be confused with the model 719...different lugs: http:// vintagegruen.org/vgforum/index.php?t=msg&th=304&star t=0&


"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver
Re: Gruen watch [message #7075 is a reply to message #7072] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harogut is currently offline  harogut
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2016
Location: Athens, Georgia
Gruen Apprentice
Then, why does the case read 752?
Re: Gruen watch [message #7076 is a reply to message #7075] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harogut is currently offline  harogut
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2016
Location: Athens, Georgia
Gruen Apprentice
Now, this wouldn't be what they call a "movement migration" would it?
Re: Gruen watch [message #7078 is a reply to message #7075] Wed, 13 July 2016 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Gruen Master
Harold,

The # 752 paired with the cal 335 or 335/752 is the style # which designates the crystal style/size.
Gruen had their special system unlike other companies.

You have much reading to do here on the forum. Very Happy

I'll post a link the topic discussing this when I find it.

You will notice in the link I posted above of one of my watches, that the style # is exactly the same as yours which indicates that the crystal is the same (size & shape) for both cases.





"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2016 22:57]

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Re: Gruen watch [message #7080 is a reply to message #7078] Thu, 14 July 2016 08:27 Go to previous message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Harold,

what Liz meant by #753 is the Master Book number of this watch. There is one "document" existing from the original Gruen times which is acutally a file of photographs with a bare desription, classification and numbering. This document was first published by the Ehrhardts and out of print for a couple of years. Mike "The Watchguy" Barnett purchased the manuscript, enhanced the photos and republished it as the Gruen Catalog. So your watch is a "Strap 753" in that book. This has nothing to do with the style number.
Liz: you got me. I indeed thought that this watch is the #719, so my ID is most likely wrong. Both have the 335 / 752 combination and I think there are at least two more exiisting with this compbination. But the #719 should have been published before the #753 and I was already brave dating a stle #752 watch in October 1951. THis style number should point at least to a first use in 1952. So here we have another ince new puzzle.
I agree with you that this is #753, yours is #719.
The Star Supreme was introduced in October 1951, so that could probably be the first use of that style number, or it has an even lower one.
So my wild guessing would now be:
Your Strap 719 is the Star Supreme but why does it have the checkered dial?
This watch is Strap 753, but what was the sales name?
Which Strap # does the All-Star 12 have? It was always shown with smaller lugs, but I can not find this watch in the Master Book / Catalog, do I need new glasses?

Why the hell did Gruen introduce so many new and almost identical models in the early 50s? Just to confuse later generations? Damned...

Barney


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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