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Home » The Gruen Model Database » 1940's » VT Lexington (CAL 411)
VT Lexington [message #7788] Fri, 17 February 2017 16:40 Go to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Registered: June 2013
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Gruen Master
Model name :Lexington
Type :Veri-Thin
Period/date :1940's
Gender :Gents

Case Maker :
Case Material :
Case Serial :
Case Style no :

Caliber :411
Movement Maker :Gruen
Movement Serial:

Bracelet :

Other info :

index.php?t=getfile&id=3217&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=3216&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=3214&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=3214&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=3213&private=0
So, in need of another minute hand, but would really like to know what the name of this is. I bought this on the swamp a few years again, and decided to get this up and running. This really runs beautifully and very accurate. Any information would be great. Ah, will be more than happy to purchase a minute hand from you.

Timeticker out!
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People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 17:46] by Moderator

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Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7793 is a reply to message #7788] Sat, 18 February 2017 06:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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That is the VT Lexington (off the top of my head). Featured in the "8 great military" ad that ran in 1941. second one down

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7797 is a reply to message #7793] Sat, 18 February 2017 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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I was thinking similar like Jack but I believed to see a C1 serial number at the movement. This would point towards 1949 which was "the Autowind year" I did not find a round crystalled watch with subsecond dial without autowind in that year...

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7801 is a reply to message #7797] Sat, 18 February 2017 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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In response to Barney's alternative hypothesis... ratchet wheel is plain; consistent with the 1941 date of the watch. Movement is clearly a cal 411 15 jewel 10-1/2L size. These were gone from the list of movements per Mikes tables by 1943.

Also, the German site "Gruen Watch" shows one since we don't have one in our online data base. Although Skirby posted one of these with a degraded lume/dial issue.

One additional thing of note is that the style of the dial, with the number font and subsecond chapter was by 1944 using a cal 421 (in the ad it is top row, right side). There is also an auto-wind Lexington but these were later (ca. 1950) and did not reuse the style of dial.

I'll go find my VT Lexington and post an image.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

[Updated on: Sat, 18 February 2017 17:32]

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Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7803 is a reply to message #7801] Sat, 18 February 2017 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Jack, you are absolutely right. As I said I just thought to see the C1 date so I looked in 1949 but could not find anything. I agree with you that this should be the VT Lexington!
I personally don't have a 411 watch, but a couple of 411C ones. They are all dated between 1940 and 1942...


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7817 is a reply to message #7803] Sun, 19 February 2017 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Hey Barney.......I have a 411. Wanna buy it? Lol! Kidding! You two fine gentlemen are incredible with all this information. Really good stuff! However, if you would like a 411 for restoration (will need case and such, no wait......I may have a derelict for restoration, please let me know, and I'll be very happy to gift it to you and send to Germany. Your call!

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7818 is a reply to message #7817] Sun, 19 February 2017 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Ok, so back to my question. Look very close at that minute hand. The style is different than that of the one JackW referred to. This minute hand was an after market add on, as I believe, the original was lost. The point on this minute hand is much more different than what I have on my other Gruens. JackW sent me a correct minute hand a few months back, and methinks that is what is supposed to be on here. (Although Skirby posted one of these with a degraded lume/dial issue.) Compare the two.........I'm not going nuts, am I? Also, was this supposed to be a 411c movement, or a plain 411?



People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7819 is a reply to message #7818] Mon, 20 February 2017 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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That should be a plain 411, the 411C is marked as such and is obviously curved on the dial side.
Thank you very much for your offer, but I do own at least one 411 movement already. Sorry that I can't help with the minute hand.


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7820 is a reply to message #7819] Mon, 20 February 2017 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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No, I get the part about the 411 and 411C as that is stamped in the lower plate and quite visible. What I'm asking is if this is an Import, was it supposed to be a 411 or 411c?

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7821 is a reply to message #7820] Mon, 20 February 2017 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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That should not have anything to do with the watch being an import or assembled in the US. The Catalog does not tell which movement was used.
Here: http://gruen.watch/?product=gruen-veri-thin-411-988-lexingto n you can see the watch with the regular 411. I do not believe that the 988 stamping is a style number.


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7822 is a reply to message #7821] Mon, 20 February 2017 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Ahh, excellent! I sincerely appreciate that! Very kind of you, Sir!

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7823 is a reply to message #7822] Mon, 20 February 2017 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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I went to the Gruen website. That is one beautiful Lexington! Pretty sure that dial was redone, but that is just beautiful! I'll probably have mine done back to a factory finish. However, I am now on the hunt for the correct minute hand!

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7824 is a reply to message #7821] Mon, 20 February 2017 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
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Barney Green wrote on Mon, 20 February 2017 15:58
I do not believe that the 988 stamping is a style number.
Agree, Gruen did not have style numbers for these Swiss produced steel cases. Or let me rephrase, I have yet to see one Very Happy
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7826 is a reply to message #7824] Mon, 20 February 2017 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Tomas... yes the minute hand is not a Gruen style. Finding one shouldn't be too hard.

The 411c vs the regular 411.... As Barney points out the top plate is more curved on the 411c then the other. Small enough difference that the pinion on the main wheel is a bit different between the two. I have found that the 'c' versions of the movement are in more dress-style watches.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: Import to be or not to be [message #7829 is a reply to message #7826] Tue, 21 February 2017 02:01 Go to previous message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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What is interesting is that Monkee pointed out that Gruen used all types of hand combinations on their watches, and then proceeds to show me a Gruen Import with radium "Cathedral" hands on it. I think it was an Import 233.

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
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