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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #7966 is a reply to message #7965] |
Fri, 07 April 2017 23:38   |
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timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
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Gruen Master |
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Awesome looking model, Bruce. Thanks for sharing!
Did all the 123 calibers have gold washed plates or only a certain numerical block? I haven't seen very many.
I have a "Quadron 99" with the gold plates and serial #706335.
"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver
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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #7969 is a reply to message #7966] |
Sun, 09 April 2017 15:22 |
brtime
Messages: 21
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Gruen Apprentice |
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As far as I know, all the 123s had the gold-colored plates. I believe it was the last of the "original" Quadrons to be made before Gruen ceased production in favor of the Curvex and other Calibers. Interestingly, the Gruen's materials department continued to refer to many new calibers as "Quadrons" if the movements continued to fill the majority of the movement cavity in the case. For example, the materials department referred to the Caliber 500 as a Quadron, even though the name was dropped in Gruen's advertising.
Other folks may have some additional thoughts on the 123. I am merely speaking from experience and how Roy Ehrhardt's original "Master Book" was organized.
Sincerely,
Bruce Shawkey
brtime
[Updated on: Sun, 09 April 2017 15:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #7989 is a reply to message #7965] |
Tue, 18 April 2017 23:35 |
Timeticker
Messages: 568
Registered: June 2013
Location: Somewhere in the world
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Gruen Master |
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MonKee wrote on Fri, 07 April 2017 23:16I really like that watch !! Fortunately I just recently acquired the same model and would really like to know where you got that beautiful strap !!
Hi Monty,
I have an excellent source on original straps. PM me , and I'll give you their link.
People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!
Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #11719 is a reply to message #11718] |
Wed, 27 November 2019 04:17 |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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Well done, Jack. The lost wax casting undertaking is particularly impressive.
The earliest 123 I have recorded is from mid-1929, Gruen case # 1304645, right before the Gruen house case jump to 2mm, one of the first cases marked "movement adjusted in USA," although movement still marked "adjusted temps" (correction: it's not marked for adjustments at all--had to double check, after learning more below. It's sn 700430). Bridges already gold, as were all later ones I've seen.
It seems the 123 had low production, as I've never seen one with a sn higher than 707027, and that one is from at least late 1935 (stamped GXC). From 3 examples I have seen, 1929 serial #s were 700k. By end of 1930, the 123 was at sn 702k, now stamped "Unadj" in a "movement adjusted in USA" case. In 1934 cases, mid-706k. Seemingly fewer than 10k made from 1929-1935.
My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
[Updated on: Thu, 28 November 2019 03:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #11722 is a reply to message #11719] |
Wed, 27 November 2019 15:03 |
thesnark17
Messages: 649
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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I agree. Highest SN I've seen is 707134. Unadjusted vs adjusted is all over the place though:
694k Unadjusted,
699k low Unadjusted,
699k hi - 700k low Adjusted Temp.,
700k mid Unadj. Unadjusted,
700k hi Adjusted Temp.,
702k-706k Unadj., then
706k-707k Unadjusted.
Go figure. This lends credence to the idea of runs produced or imported out of order.
Now you know what's really fun: Gruen was still producing 117 (and 119?) calibers during the run of 123s (or even later!!). In particular, the caliber 117N was certainly made after 1930, and there are examples with Conoruma balance (post 1935).
119 - 641935 Un Adjusted, Wadsworth 5456463; 123/108.
117N - serials scattered in the 576-586k range; Un Adjusted, Wadsworth 545xxxx serials and cases 123/108 for the few that still have cases.
I think this would indicate that some plates were held back (QC?), and later, Gruen remanufactured dead stock. I'm not suggesting that the plates were still being produced.
I would love to get my hands on a Conoruma Quadron... !!
[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2019 15:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quadron 109 [message #11766 is a reply to message #11726] |
Mon, 02 December 2019 06:01 |
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afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Gruen Authority |
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thesnark17 wrote on Wed, 27 November 2019 11:57
SPECULATION ALERT
I think you're right about market considerations playing into this somehow. But in that case, why build a 325 caliber at all? Where does it fit? Did they quit production of the 123 for market reasons, only to find that there was still a marketIt seems to me that the 325 continues the numbering pattern, but in that case, why not number it 125? Does the "3" numbering relate to the Guild somehow? I don't know of any caliber 125.
END ALERT
The 325 wasn't made by Gruen. It's not really a part of the 117/119/123 family. Even it's size is similar, but not the same. And not being made in the Precision factory, that would be the reason that they are never marked Precision, but rather Guild instead. It certainly coexisted with the 123, and was often used in higher priced models, particularly the 3251 21 jewel version, so Gruen clearly positioned it as a premium caliber. As to why they wouldn't just use an up-jeweled 123 or similar instead of an outsourced caliber, I don't know. It would seem that the whole Guild concept was an apparatus for keeping supply up with demand beyond what Gruen could accomplish with its own facilities.
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