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Curvex Box [message #8274] Thu, 27 July 2017 13:41 Go to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2013
Location: New York
Gruen Apprentice
Hey guys,

Does anyone know from what era is the box from? It's seems like it's made out of cardboard with leather or fake leather finish. The silver trim is a metal rod wrapped around the edge of the box. I'm hoping it's from the 30's but think it might be 40's/50's. Thanks guys!

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-65LHJ3c/0/374e281a/L/i-65LHJ3c-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NJRpkTx/0/92a7c37f/L/i-NJRpkTx-L.jpg

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 13:47]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #8275 is a reply to message #8274] Thu, 27 July 2017 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2013
Location: New York
Gruen Apprentice
I just realized this should be in "Gruen Chit Chat". I'm sorry!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8276 is a reply to message #8275] Thu, 27 July 2017 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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Gruen Authority
That's a good one to ID, because it is patented.
Mr. Eugene Lux from Gruen filed for the patent on April 25, 1936 wich was granted as US patent no. 2,157,990 on May 9, 1939. So I think you are lucky and it is from the 30s.

Cool!

Barney


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 20:43]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #8277 is a reply to message #8276] Thu, 27 July 2017 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2013
Location: New York
Gruen Apprentice
Thanks so much Barney! I found the drawing for the box! Thanks for providing the patent number Smile I was hoping the box was earlier for my Majesty. I guess I need to find the plastic version of this box which I think is correct for my watch. This is still a GREAT piece for my other Curvex's. Thanks again!

Here's the link to the drawing.
https://www.google.com/patents/US2157990

Barney Green wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 10:18
That's a good one to ID, because it is patented.
Mr. Eugene Lux from Gruen filed for the patend on April 25, 1936 wich was granted as US patent no. 2,157,990 on May 9, 1939. So I think you are lucky and it is from the 30s.

Cool!

Barney
Re: Curvex Box [message #8281 is a reply to message #8277] Thu, 27 July 2017 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
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Just my speculative opinion, but leaving aside the patent date, it would surprise me if this leatherette box didn't predate the plastic version. The trend at the time was away from leatherette boxes like this and towards plastic, not the other way around. And it's possible that it could have been produced before a patent was even applied for. I don't know how unusual that would be, but it's certainly possible.
Re: Curvex Box [message #8282 is a reply to message #8281] Thu, 27 July 2017 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1725
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Gruen Authority
Exactly what I think...

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Curvex Box [message #8283 is a reply to message #8282] Thu, 27 July 2017 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Gruen Master
Afire..you are correct! However, the "Bakelite" stuff we have seen (vintage stuff) was created, if you will,by Leo Baekeland in Yonkers, New York, in 1907. His material started gaining popularity around the 1930s, and was used for toys, pipes, and all manner of other items. I am using very loose translations here. So, Bakelight was around during this era, but I still think that the leather covered cases were the preferred item, and later 30s and 40s in to the 50s, would usher in larger uses of this new style plastic. Just a thought............

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Curvex Box [message #8285 is a reply to message #8283] Fri, 28 July 2017 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
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Gruen Apprentice
WOW! Thanks guys! So it could be possible that my Majesty was boxed in this. COOL!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8288 is a reply to message #8285] Fri, 28 July 2017 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
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Gruen Master
I have seen some original ads showing this box from the late 30's. Maybe those are clear enough to identify if the bakelite type or leatherette type was used first used. Can't check at the moment as I have no access to my computer.
Re: Curvex Box [message #8290 is a reply to message #8288] Fri, 28 July 2017 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
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Gruen Apprentice
If you can check when you have time that would be GREAT! Thanks so much Thojil!

Thojil wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 17:59
I have seen some original ads showing this box from the late 30's. Maybe those are clear enough to identify if the bakelite type or leatherette type was used first used. Can't check at the moment as I have no access to my computer.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 July 2017 22:23]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #8291 is a reply to message #8290] Sun, 30 July 2017 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C. Hurt is currently offline  C. Hurt
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Gruen Guildsman
As far as I know, the leather box was used for the first Curvex models beginning in late 1935. There is a round paper insert that was fitted into the right side cover which described "introducing the Curvex". Kyle Rogers has a complete set of men's and ladies with the paperwork.

The round blue plastic box was used for later (1937) models, including the Majesty and (with a different holder) the 330 Rist-sides. There were other versions of the blue plastic boxes used until around 1940, and the round plastic box makes a return (in gray and maroon) in the late 1940s for the 440 Rist-side models.

But, since we're talking about Gruen, it would not surprise me at all if there were early 330 models sold in the leather boxes and late 311 models sold in the blue plastic boxes.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 July 2017 21:01]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #8293 is a reply to message #8291] Mon, 31 July 2017 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
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Gruen Master
This is the 1935 CURVEX launch ad published in the Saturday Evening Post.

It is clearly the leatherette box that was used first in line with what you would have expected from the patent file date.

index.php?t=getfile&id=3407&private=0


Here is one example including the original paperwork that was in the same shape as the box.

index.php?t=getfile&id=3408&private=0
Re: Curvex Box [message #8294 is a reply to message #8293] Mon, 31 July 2017 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
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Gruen did not file a patent for the plastic version until November 1937.

And as Cary already hinted there is only 18 months between the two patents so very likely these boxes have been overlapping in the late 30's. I guess both would be ok for the Majesty.

index.php?t=getfile&id=3409&private=0
Re: Curvex Box [message #8295 is a reply to message #8291] Tue, 01 August 2017 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
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Gruen Apprentice
Thanks so much C. Hurt!!!! This is GREAT info!

C. Hurt wrote on Sun, 30 July 2017 16:48
As far as I know, the leather box was used for the first Curvex models beginning in late 1935. There is a round paper insert that was fitted into the right side cover which described "introducing the Curvex". Kyle Rogers has a complete set of men's and ladies with the paperwork.

The round blue plastic box was used for later (1937) models, including the Majesty and (with a different holder) the 330 Rist-sides. There were other versions of the blue plastic boxes used until around 1940, and the round plastic box makes a return (in gray and maroon) in the late 1940s for the 440 Rist-side models.

But, since we're talking about Gruen, it would not surprise me at all if there were early 330 models sold in the leather boxes and late 311 models sold in the blue plastic boxes.
Re: Curvex Box [message #8296 is a reply to message #8294] Tue, 01 August 2017 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
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Gruen Apprentice
Thanks Thojil! I love the patent drawing!

Thojil wrote on Mon, 31 July 2017 04:55
Gruen did not file a patent for the plastic version until November 1937.

And as Cary already hinted there is only 18 months between the two patents so very likely these boxes have been overlapping in the late 30's. I guess both would be ok for the Majesty.

index.php?t=getfile&id=3409&private=0
Re: Curvex Box [message #8297 is a reply to message #8296] Wed, 02 August 2017 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
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Well, after all this, I think you have to put your Majesty in there and post a pic for us to drool over.
Re: Curvex Box [message #8299 is a reply to message #8297] Fri, 04 August 2017 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Gruen Master
afire wrote on Wed, 02 August 2017 18:34
Well, after all this, I think you have to put your Majesty in there and post a pic for us to drool over.
I agree with Afire! Let us look, and drool!!!


People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Curvex Box [message #8310 is a reply to message #8299] Fri, 11 August 2017 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
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Gruen Apprentice
I'll try to get some pics over the weekend Very Happy
Re: Curvex Box [message #8312 is a reply to message #8310] Fri, 11 August 2017 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2013
Location: New York
Gruen Apprentice
Look what I found guys! Very Happy The correct box for my Majesty Very Happy I'll try to get more photos over the weekend. I'll also get some shots of the leatherette box with one of my 311's.

BTW I need to find another plastic box for my Curvex Peer Very Happy The search is never over! LOL

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-K34CDfR/0/8cabc911/O/i-K34CDfR.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nfggs45/0/48478df4/O/i-nfggs45.jpg

[Updated on: Fri, 11 August 2017 15:48]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #8313 is a reply to message #8312] Fri, 11 August 2017 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thojil is currently offline  Thojil
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Gruen Master
Very nice!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8316 is a reply to message #8313] Fri, 11 August 2017 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
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Gruen Apprentice
Thanks Thojil! It's a very COOL interesting box! I need another for my Peer LOL

Thojil wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 12:32
Very nice!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8317 is a reply to message #8316] Fri, 11 August 2017 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Timeticker is currently offline  Timeticker
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Gruen Master
Wow, I would love to find that under my Christmas tree!

People you thought were your best friends will stab you in the back to your face!

Love them anyway.
A "Paradoxical Commandment"
Re: Curvex Box [message #8318 is a reply to message #8317] Fri, 11 August 2017 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2013
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Gruen Apprentice
Thanks Timeticker!

Timeticker wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 15:51
Wow, I would love to find that under my Christmas tree!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8320 is a reply to message #8318] Sun, 13 August 2017 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kastner is currently offline  kastner
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Gruen Guildsman
That is seriously cool cmoy. Thanks for sharing it and good luck on your next search!
Re: Curvex Box [message #8326 is a reply to message #8320] Wed, 16 August 2017 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cmoy is currently offline  cmoy
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Gruen Apprentice
Thanks kastner!

kastner wrote on Sun, 13 August 2017 11:06
That is seriously cool cmoy. Thanks for sharing it and good luck on your next search!
Re: Curvex Box [message #12119 is a reply to message #8326] Fri, 07 February 2020 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DRGM is currently offline  DRGM
Messages: 18
Registered: January 2020
Gruen Apprentice
These early Curvex boxes are just great! I wished I’d own the leatherette box for a 311 and the early blue plastic box for a 330…

I’m crazy when it comes to watch boxes. Often, I buy a box without owning the matching “filling”. Like in this case, when I saw the “gray egg” - I hadn’t seen such a Curvex box before:


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6070&private=0


Said box was protected for Gruen by two patents, i. e. by patent No 2,667,967 and by Design patent No 161,898:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6071&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6072&private=0

Both patents were filed in USPTO on September 21, 1950. Inventors were Francis E. Blod and Alfred M. Blumenfeld. Shortly after application of the patents the box was put on the market - here’s an ad published in „The Ohio Daily Express“ on October 13, 1950, that means, roughly one months after the application date of the patents:


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6073&private=0


There, the box is shown with a Portrait - I assume, all other Curvex models were sold with this “gray egg” also. As I already mentioned: I bought the box, but a matching filling was missing. It surfaced some days later, i.e. a Captain, style number 370/750.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6074&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6075&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6076&private=0

The Captain has an unostentatious design - contrary to some Curvex models of the late 40s/early 50s which are sometimes quite kitschy.


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6077&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6078&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6079&private=0

Re: Curvex Box [message #12120 is a reply to message #12119] Fri, 07 February 2020 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DRGM is currently offline  DRGM
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Gruen Apprentice
Back to the box: maker of the box was the company Braun-Crystal Manufacturing Co. and its production company BCN Design Products Inc., respectively.

Braun-Crystal (BCN Design Products) is known for designing/making boxes for other watch companies, i. a. Hamilton, Bulova, Benrus and Elgin.


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6081&private=0
Re: Curvex Box [message #12122 is a reply to message #12120] Fri, 07 February 2020 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
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That box is awesome. Great pictures too.
Re: Curvex Box [message #12125 is a reply to message #12122] Fri, 07 February 2020 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Cool stuff you have there!

I've never understood the box part.... but that is me. This though is an artform unto itself.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: Curvex Box [message #12247 is a reply to message #12125] Tue, 10 March 2020 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
olivierwatch is currently offline  olivierwatch
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Gruen Apprentice
Very impressive topic about Gruen boxes, congrats guys, I am jealous.

I love vintage Gruen watches.
My website
Re: Curvex Box [message #15488 is a reply to message #12247] Tue, 14 September 2021 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
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Gruen Authority
Revived for an update. I ID'd the maker of OP's leatherette Curvex box as Star Case Company, NY. The *original* fabric was in fact "checkered cloth" but they soon switched to what Gruen called "airplane cloth".

October, 1935. So this predates the patent filing.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8487&private=0


Matthias
Re: Curvex Box [message #15489 is a reply to message #15488] Tue, 14 September 2021 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
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Quick google search, did not find info on this box maker. Seems it did not make it into the future. Do you have more info?

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: Curvex Box [message #15490 is a reply to message #15489] Tue, 14 September 2021 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
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Jenneke wrote on Tue, 14 September 2021 13:37
Quick google search, did not find info on this box maker. Seems it did not make it into the future. Do you have more info?
Yes for sure. They did make it into the future as here's an ad from 48 I found. We have seen one of their boxes before, yes. You're right that it's hard to find stuff on them. They started out in 1907 ish.

https://vintagegruen.org/vgforum/index.php?t=msg&th=1924 &start=0&


Matthias
Re: Curvex Box [message #15505 is a reply to message #15490] Wed, 15 September 2021 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
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After Star they went with Rathbun for this type Curvex case.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8513&private=0


Matthias

[Updated on: Wed, 15 September 2021 17:50]

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Re: Curvex Box [message #15511 is a reply to message #15505] Wed, 15 September 2021 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
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Aha, so the leather covered ones are from star case and the plastic moulded ones from rathbun.

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: Curvex Box [message #15528 is a reply to message #15511] Thu, 16 September 2021 17:32 Go to previous message
Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Not quite right. Rathbun molded plastic for several case makers, also for the Star Case Co from NY. It looks like the Star Case Co was sole or at least main supplier of watch cases to Gruen in the 20s, probably even earlier, until about 1936.
Prior to the plastic ones which were first introduced 1931, Star made wooden and leather cases mainly and continued to work with leather and wood at least until late 30s. It is also likely that they made the nice parts cabinets.


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Thu, 16 September 2021 17:33]

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