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Cal 103 [message #11418] Fri, 18 October 2019 15:00 Go to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Has anyonw ever come across a caliber 103 movement? This is the first time I have seen one.
The 1926 Supplement B Parts Catalog shows it, it is 8 ligne (althought actually I measure 7.85 ligne), the catalog says 15 and 16 jewels, but it actally is 17 jewels 4 Adjustments. Mikes book lists it as introdcued 1917 which is well possible. Numbers only for jewels /adj, no jewel or adjustment count in words.
Marked Gruen W. Co., so it may be a in house movement? It appears to be very light weight, almost as it were made of aluminium.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5334&private=0
  • Attachment: Cal 103.jpg
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Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #11420 is a reply to message #11418] Fri, 18 October 2019 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Gruen Master
I have a cal 103 also, movement with dial only, and have identified it as a FHF Robert. Mine is 16j.
Can't find a photo but I must have researched it after I got it because I made a notation in my spreadsheet: "for 18K W case-Cartouche 39" .


"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Fri, 18 October 2019 17:12]

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Re: Cal 103 [message #11421 is a reply to message #11420] Fri, 18 October 2019 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Perfect, thanks a lot for the hint, Liz. Yes the dial of Cartouche 39 is a perfect fit to my dial as well.
I purchased it together with about 20 movements, seem to have been from a gold scrapper. Mainly higher end movements, some Cartouches, but mainly 280, 290, 275, 2571 and 2753.

And yes, you are right, it is a FHF movement, not in-house. Just the engraving is like of an in house movement. The FHF movement was introduced in November 1916, so the 1917 movement introdction date could be correct.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5338&private=0
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Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Fri, 18 October 2019 18:54]

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Re: Cal 103 [message #11422 is a reply to message #11421] Fri, 18 October 2019 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
I never knew that round cartouche movements existed. Gruen is always good to suprise me every day.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #11423 is a reply to message #11422] Fri, 18 October 2019 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Huh. That is surprising.
I assumed that by definition a cartouche was "an oblong movement in a oblong case" bc of these from 22. The round movement seems to go against the design.
Interesting. I would love to see a pic of a round movement in a cartouche case.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5339&private=0
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Matthias
Re: Cal 103 [message #11424 is a reply to message #11423] Fri, 18 October 2019 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timeliz
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Gruen Master
I think Gruen just threw them into the cartouche catagory for record keeping.
These were here and gone in the blink of an eye.

Update...
Just found my 103 and took pics

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5341&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5342&private=0


"Some days are diamonds, some days are stones..." -John Denver

[Updated on: Fri, 18 October 2019 23:55]

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Re: Cal 103 [message #11442 is a reply to message #11424] Sat, 19 October 2019 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Also the round calibers 100 and 101 wer used in Cartouches, I now figured out.
It loks like Gruen bought the ebauches from FHF and finished them in house, making these in house calibers. Calibers 100 and 101 have been slightly bigger and were used in the so called "Semi Cartouches". May be we would have to call the 103 based cartouches "Semi Cartouches" as well. There has also been the definition of "Short Cartouches" at that time and I assume they have had round movements as well.


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #11449 is a reply to message #11442] Sat, 19 October 2019 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
This should be the "Short Cartouche" caliber 103 has been used in with that specific dial.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=5357&private=0


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #11683 is a reply to message #11449] Fri, 22 November 2019 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
edit: moved my post on the sister 101 caliber to a new thread, since it wasn't in the database yet.

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

[Updated on: Fri, 22 November 2019 14:31]

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Re: Cal 103 [message #13704 is a reply to message #11449] Wed, 09 September 2020 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Hi Bernd, came across this "15 Jewels" 103 w dial & case. So we now have 17, 16, 15 Jewels variations.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7104&private=0





/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7103&private=0


Matthias

[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2020 19:34]

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Re: Cal 103 [message #13705 is a reply to message #13704] Wed, 09 September 2020 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Great, thank you very much for the addition!

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #13706 is a reply to message #13704] Wed, 09 September 2020 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Cool find, Matt.

Very curious—Bernds early 17J & the 26 sup B both have a triangular stud. I’ve not noticed it from Gruen's known suppliers (all round), and I think the FHF base version studs were round, too. Hmmm.


My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
Re: Cal 103 [message #13707 is a reply to message #13705] Wed, 09 September 2020 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Barney Green wrote on Wed, 09 September 2020 13:45
Great, thank you very much for the addition!
.
Yeah no worries....but now I got questions! Laughing


Or at least one... is Cartouche 39 the only model in the Gruen Book that is showing Calibre 103 as it's movement?

I couldn't find another but maybe I missed one....

I can definitely add another model it was used in!

Hm, did Gruen make octagonal short/semi cartouches?!


Matthias
Re: Cal 103 [message #13712 is a reply to message #13707] Thu, 10 September 2020 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Hi Mat,

yes. I think Car 39 is the only one shown in the book using caliber 103. So I assume it has been the last model introduced with this caliber but the movement has been used in the pro movement era.

The dial of your watch fits this model which has been available before the book and is therefore not included. In 1922 this platinum variant had the 17 jewel version, but may be lower priced versions came with 15 or 16 jewels?


/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7108&private=0

The watch itself has been introduced 1919 and made its way through differents ads until the early 1922 one above.

1921 ($100):
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7111&private=0

1920 (price unknown):
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7110&private=0

1919 ($275!!!):
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=7109&private=0

So it has been too late to be included in the "worthy" book and too early for the "master" book.



Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
icon14.gif  Re: Cal 103 [message #13716 is a reply to message #13712] Thu, 10 September 2020 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
Gruen Authority
Thanks Bernd, this is it, the ads you are showing or very close to it. I now feel confident enough to database it. It makes me happy that you can see a dial and come up with the closest model match. Pre 1922 indeed.


Matthias
Re: Cal 103 [message #13718 is a reply to message #13716] Fri, 11 September 2020 04:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Barney—that looks like an evolution of the Diamond octagon Plate 25A in 1918 WCOW, but new lugs. It was $355 in 1918. Wire lugs. No movement info on it, but... AA1 Diamonds all over, Platinum top, and it says 16k gold back. Anyone heard of 16k gold, or is that a typo (18k)?

So maybe these lugs were intro’d in 1919.
Re: Cal 103 [message #13721 is a reply to message #13718] Fri, 11 September 2020 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1714
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Dan, Plate 25A with its round crystal coexisted with the octagon shaped crystal variant. Yes, the desription sounds similar and I agree it may have evolved from the 25A. Both are true beauties and imagine the buying prrice back in 1918. You could almost have bought a new car for that amount of money...

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Cal 103 [message #13725 is a reply to message #13721] Fri, 11 September 2020 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
The price is astonishing. And the delta to 1920 is mystifying—wartime costs? Makes me feel better about my recent purchases Razz
Re: Cal 103 [message #15410 is a reply to message #13725] Sun, 05 September 2021 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Another Caliber 103 went today, a model A103 (AA1 Diamond series).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-16k-White-Gold-Platinum-wit h-Diamonds-Watch-not-scrap-/313656184205
Re: Cal 103 [message #15419 is a reply to message #15410] Tue, 07 September 2021 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afire is currently offline  afire
Messages: 1308
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Gruen Authority
That's an interesting little specimen. It's crazy how little money nice ladies watches command.
Re: Cal 103 [message #15420 is a reply to message #15419] Tue, 07 September 2021 22:39 Go to previous message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1832
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
No international shipping. ☹️ Otherwise it would have gone for more…

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
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