| Quadron Import 220 [message #12406] |
Fri, 01 May 2020 14:53  |
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Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France
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Gruen Master |
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Model name : Import 220
Type : Quadron Crown Guard
Period/date : 1930-1933
Gender : Gents
Case Maker : Unknown, Swiss made (marked Alpina Gruen)
Case Material : Two-tone, steel with rose gold
Case Serial : 45821
Case Style no :
Caliber : 175
Movement Maker : Marc Favre Co. Biel (Factory "M")
Movement Serial : A451 (?)
Bracelet : After market
Other info :
Although very similar the dial is not identical to the Import 220 model as shown in Mike Barnett's Gruen Watch Catalog (page 107). This catalog also shows a second dial variation called Import 223.
Caliber 175 is a big unknown to me. There is no reference in any of the Gruen documentation available to me of this caliber. Though it is not a "Precision" or "Extra Precision" grade, the level of finishing is to a high standard when comparing to similar calibers like the 325 or 157. Not only the beautiful surface finishing on all sides, but also the one-piece milled yoke and the fact it has an intermediate setting wheel are indications this is a high grade movement.
My feeling is that it could have been produced by Marc Favre Co., Biel. Reason for that is Gruen was also sourcing their 157 and 165/167 Quadron calibers from M. Favre and the escape design is the same or very similar to caliber 157 (but maybe not unique to M. Favre?). Another point is I was able to carry over the detent screw from a 165 which was broken on my 175. I tried detent screws from many different Gruen calibers, but none of them fitted, the detent screw of the 165 was literally identical to the one on the 175. Also the set bridge design of caliber 165 resembles the design of this 175.
EDIT : Information has been updated in line with new info provided by fellow Gruenites. The movement is confirmed as caliber MF175, produced by Marc Favre Co.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 May 2020 15:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quadron Import 220 [message #12407 is a reply to message #12406] |
Fri, 01 May 2020 16:36  |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Congratulation,very fine watch!
I can confirm that caliber 175 is Marc Favre made, it is even their caliber number. Seems to have been only used in Alpina-Gruen watches, I also have one although the movement is incomplete. Need to purchase a donor movement, but am currently hesitating to spend $100 to get one. There are two in the swamp since a while, but I am not yet willing to spend that amount of money.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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| Re: Quadron Import 220 [message #12414 is a reply to message #12407] |
Fri, 01 May 2020 23:13 |
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JackW
Messages: 1931
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
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Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin |
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The 'Staybrite' mark is interesting....
Quote:Staybrite steel was made by Thomas Firth John Brown Ltd. of Sheffield and was protected by Swiss patent No. 138 647. Use of the name Staybrite like this required permission from Firth, and it could only be put onto items that were actually made of Staybrite steel.
from - https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/stainlesssteel.php
Different watch and markings, but I've an example that is also marked Staybrite.... I also presume this is pre-Guildite other wise it would be marked in addition.
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
[Updated on: Fri, 01 May 2020 23:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quadron Import 220 [message #12415 is a reply to message #12414] |
Sat, 02 May 2020 06:00 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1747
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Jack,
you might be perfectly right. Didn't they register the Guildite trademark in 1933?
Alpina Gruen was started in 1929 and the colaboration started to cool down in 1933. So most Alpina-Gruens are dated between 1929 and 1933.
But do not gorget that for the Alpina-Gruen watches different rules apply. These were intended to be sold in Europe and here European trademarks rules applied. The casemaker not necessarily stamped Guildite in the back even also when watches for the US from the same time had the mark already.
I also have one Alpina-Gruen with the Staybrite marking which makes it more likely being pre 1933 but I would not take it as a proof.
Barney
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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| Re: Quadron Import 220 [message #12428 is a reply to message #12424] |
Mon, 04 May 2020 18:09 |
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afire
Messages: 1331
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Gruen Authority |
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JackW wrote on Sat, 02 May 2020 10:47There are examples of Guildite and Staybrite marked cases.... here is one: at WUS forums But the markings are difficult to read.... believing the OPs read.
Hah! I've been maintaining for years that I've seen a case marked both Staybrite and Guildite, but always had to tack on the disclaimer that it's a fuzzy memory and I have no proof. Finally.
And just to illustrate how peculiar these Import models from the Guild era can be, here's my post on an Import 220 I used to own. And here's the one I currently own:
Not only different calibers, but different case makers. Mine were both Webers, while yours made by the other unidentified Swiss case maker with the five-digit serial numbers. Gruen's supply chain must have been positively Byzantine. And the gold accents (very nice). I've now seen four Import 220s, and all four have had different dials, and none were the same as the dial shown in the Master Book.
I've seen two examples of Import 113s - mine in green gold with white accents, the other in white gold with green accents, both with different side engravings and slightly different bezel engravings. And the Import 144 shown in the Master Book has an inset crown, while mine does not.
Why so much variation? Bob Ayers ("Air" at VWF) posited an explanation that makes sense to me, that they were going for bespoke. The idea being to offer unique watches to upscale jewelers in big cities whose customers may not be interested "off the shelf" goods. I can't think of any better explanation.
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