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Home » The Gruen Model Database » The caliber database » Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) (Possibly Alpina)
Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12749] Thu, 02 July 2020 14:04 Go to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Another short-lived caliber from the early 1930s. Would it be Alpina? Just a guess based on the finishing, the “Gruen” only branding (no Guild or Watch Co), and the ETA ebauche. References point to ETA 425 as the compatible caliber (can’t verify beyond that too being available as 6.5L, also apparently as a 4.5L)

Seems have debuted for Gruen in 1930-1931. It was used in a limited number of models, have noted only style #s 69, 109, 123.

May have been discontinued within 1 year. Cartouches 504 & 505 are both style # 719/109, both listed in Master Book as caliber 719. But my only sightings all have 835Bs—backs still stamped 719/109 but with the correct movement slot for 835B. They have Gruen house case numbers close to the Master Book model cases (2136xxx vs 2131xxx). My highest actual 719 was case # 2126xxx. Suggestive of a hard conversion/disco.



/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6487&private=0/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6486&private=0


My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12759 is a reply to message #12749] Fri, 03 July 2020 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Yes, ETA 425 can be confirmed. Here is a snippet from their 1930 portfolio, it also confirms the 6.5 ligne size.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6489&private=0

And I found another interesting advertisement:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=6490&private=0

Looks the same, doesn't it? Two possibilities: Walker acted as distributor or was the actual manufacturer behind Schild (ETA = Schild).
  • Attachment: ETA 425.JPG
    (Size: 26.26KB, Downloaded 312 times)
  • Attachment: ETA Walker.JPG
    (Size: 118.58KB, Downloaded 352 times)


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12761 is a reply to message #12759] Fri, 03 July 2020 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Cool finds!

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12762 is a reply to message #12761] Fri, 03 July 2020 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Fascinating find!
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12763 is a reply to message #12762] Fri, 03 July 2020 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
I've been looking a little deeper now into this Johnny Walker guy. The company has been established 1926 and filed for bankruptcy end of 1929 already. The have been in business until mid of 1930, so they are for sure not the source for our Gruen movements. It will be ETA itself. ETA was founded 1930 merging the 5 companies A. Schild, A. Michel, Aurore, Felsa and Venus. All bur Michel have been known suppliers to Gruen. So this movement may have been in the portfolio of one of the four before the merger already.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12765 is a reply to message #12763] Fri, 03 July 2020 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 649
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Clearly it was in someone's portfolio since John Walker was selling it before 1929. Schild would make sense.
Re: Caliber 719 (15J) - 6.5L x 11L Oval (ETA 425) [message #12767 is a reply to message #12765] Fri, 03 July 2020 17:23 Go to previous message
Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Gruen Authority
Both pictures are from the same book, the 1930 catalog of Swiss manufacturers. Schild and Aurore make the most sense to me. BTW, the guys name has been Johann, the German version of John.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Fri, 03 July 2020 17:24]

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