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| Re: Verithin pocket watch round [message #14657 is a reply to message #14656] |
Sun, 14 March 2021 11:59   |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1725
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Jenneke,
I think this will have been called the Louis 117 White. The Ehrhardt book says Louis 11 would be yellow and does not list it white. But the 1927 guild book says Louis 11 being white and appends the V-series number to identify the movement. So the V7 makes it a Louis 117.
Here a picture from my vol.2:
Louis 10 is the Green Gold variant:
Barney
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Attachment: Louis 11.jpg
(Size: 26.40KB, Downloaded 469 times)
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Attachment: Louis107.jpg
(Size: 15.34KB, Downloaded 482 times)
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
[Updated on: Sun, 14 March 2021 15:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Verithin pocket watch round [message #14663 is a reply to message #14660] |
Mon, 15 March 2021 02:41 |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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I'll add that it may be as early as 1923. You're safe for sure with a 1923-25 range. I believe I can trace 3 distinct gold filled pocket watch case # lines, which all folded together by 1925.
-a "DGS Ultra" line that was at 307k in the 1907 invoice Liz shared, with the last example I've seen at 802119 circa 1920.
-the Wadsworth-Gruen main line, which began with the "American Made" cases
-the "Gruen Reinforced" line - usually only signed "Gruen". Also distinguished by its cursive "Gruen" script -- yours is an exception here, proving Wadsworth was supplying all!
The case number jump to 3,000,000 seems to have happened in mid-1922, seemingly to merge the DGS Ultra and the main line. The "Reinforced" line seems to have carried on in the 300k range until 1925--the first Reinforced I've seen jump to the 3MM range is at 3052XXX.
I've little enough pocket watch data, so hoping others can poke holes here. But it may help explain why so few case numbers seem to exist vs. the Gruen annual sales numbers.
Anyway, all that to say--it is a gorgeous watch!
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| Re: Verithin pocket watch round [message #14665 is a reply to message #14663] |
Tue, 16 March 2021 03:38 |
thesnark17
Messages: 649
Registered: January 2017
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Gruen Master |
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After going back and consulting my guiding data for the watch, I don't think it could be as early as 1923. That is because quite a number of movements in the low 611k range were definitely shipped in 11/1923, and seem to be the highest made at the time. So 1924 began to look more right. However, when I went back and took a real close look at all the similar V7s out there, the thing that emerged was uncertainty. If the cases were assigned in anything approaching chronological order, then here is a mess that never will be sorted!
Let me show you what I mean.
V7 SN 612609
Case SN 3007500
V7 serial numbers listed in sequential order by case number range
Case number within 500 noted with *
3005000-3007500 (case serials lower than example)
605290
*607192*
608988
609607
*610230*
<<612609>>
612249
613775
*614538* engraved 10/24/1925
*642889*
3007500-3010000 (case serials higher than example)
601883 known to have been imported as a bare mvt and stolen in Nov 1923 (along with scattered mvts mostly in the high 610k/low 611k range)
601956
603591
606727
610768
*611444* engraved 12/4/1926
611743
612405
<<612609>>
614460 engraved 11/2/1925
615700
*649498*
649539
This list actually is still obscuring the big problem, which is that there is no obvious progression. Case numbers do not appear to increment similarly to movement numbers.
For example, cases from the range 3,000,000-3,001,400 were paired with movements of 605k, 611k, 613k, 614k, 616k, and 643k. Sure, some of them could be movement swaps, but that is still a huge range of serial numbers for 1,500 cases to go towards. Just like the data above...
The movement data makes me think 1924, the (not very trustworthy) engravings 1925. 1923 is just possible, 1926 is also possible. Date of sale of course could be any time after manufacture. That's why engravings aren't all that trustworthy.
[Updated on: Tue, 16 March 2021 03:39] Report message to a moderator |
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