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Gruen Pan American [message #14958] Fri, 21 May 2021 02:23 Go to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8199&private=0Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some opinions if I could on whether or not you guys figure this is original?
Thanks very much in advance for any opinions!
I will get a movement shot soon Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 19 September 2022 17:33] by Moderator

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Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14959 is a reply to message #14958] Fri, 21 May 2021 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Some more
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8200&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8201&private=0

[Updated on: Fri, 21 May 2021 06:56] by Moderator

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Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14960 is a reply to message #14959] Fri, 21 May 2021 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Oh geez, I sure didn’t use the template did I!? Missed that, sorry!
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14967 is a reply to message #14960] Fri, 21 May 2021 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Welcome!

No template needed. ;-) I'd say this is original, nice patina on the dial.

I'll let the Pan Am experts chime in.
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14970 is a reply to message #14967] Fri, 21 May 2021 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Cool, thank you
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14973 is a reply to message #14970] Fri, 21 May 2021 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Interesting that the wadsworth number indicates 45/46 but the style number points to 1944. I guess that just means in was manufactured at the very end of 44 or very beginning of 45...
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14974 is a reply to message #14973] Fri, 21 May 2021 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
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Location: Left Coast
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

I would say 1945-46 based on the Wadsworth G6 prefix of your Ace. If you want to see some bling check out this thread!

https://vintagegruen.org/vgforum/index.php?t=msg&th=647

Edit: struck out Captain and replaced with Ace, ah heck they're all the same. Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 21 May 2021 17:15]

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Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14977 is a reply to message #14974] Fri, 21 May 2021 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Oh ya, great read! Thank you
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14988 is a reply to message #14977] Sat, 22 May 2021 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Not a very active forum... lol
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14989 is a reply to message #14988] Sat, 22 May 2021 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Depends... but I am not an expert on panams. So nothing to add.

But very nice watch though! Is it a family piece?


You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14990 is a reply to message #14989] Sat, 22 May 2021 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast
Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Maybe introduce yourself in the new member forum?

No one knows your name. ;-)
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14991 is a reply to message #14990] Sat, 22 May 2021 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Very true, I really should have done that ooops
My name is Sean
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14992 is a reply to message #14989] Sat, 22 May 2021 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Thanks no worries
Nope just bought online
Thank you
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #14998 is a reply to message #14992] Sat, 22 May 2021 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Case is currently offline  Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
Gruen Authority
Welcome, Sean! Nice watch, certainly a candidate to become an heirloom
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15001 is a reply to message #14998] Sat, 22 May 2021 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Thanks very much Smile
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15003 is a reply to message #15001] Sat, 22 May 2021 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 649
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
My money says that's all original. Definitely a less common dial style too.
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15005 is a reply to message #15003] Sun, 23 May 2021 02:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Yes I definitely haven’t seen too many of this dial variation while looking at pics.
Thanks
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15007 is a reply to message #15005] Sun, 23 May 2021 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
Messages: 1868
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
Gruen Authority
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Site Admin
Agreed... all original dial, hands and case.... Movement too, if the serial starts A-xxxxxx

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15012 is a reply to message #15007] Sun, 23 May 2021 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Great news, thank you everyone. Now I have to go search for a serial on the movement Smile
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15013 is a reply to message #15012] Sun, 23 May 2021 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
So is it rule of thumb to go by the style number or the case serial to nail down a date of manufacture?
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15014 is a reply to message #15013] Sun, 23 May 2021 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 649
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Both. Wink

The style number only gives us the date of introduction for the style, it doesn't tell us when it was made. But most styles were only made for a few years (not usually more than 5). Using this rule of thumb, your watch was manufactured in 1944-49 (but keep in mind, only the beginning of the range is certain, that's why it's the only date provided in the table).

The case serial, in this case, tells us more, because we understand the Wadsworth serial system (opening two digits are a date code). G6 dates to 1945-46, as mentioned above. However, most case serial systems are not well understood, so for most Gruens, the style number is as close as you get. So the style numbers are our rule of thumb, but sometimes we can do better.

The movement serial would provide confirmation of the case date, and in so doing confirm the originality of the movement/case combination (we know all parts are factory Gruen, but "all 420ss movements look the same" to someone with a broken movement and a functional spare). We understand movement serials "well enough" to help with dating this model, but the system is not fully understood.

We know more about the Panamerican model because it's popular, so people have studied it and figured things out. Don't expect a date within a year for most other Gruens!

[Updated on: Sun, 23 May 2021 15:33]

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Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15015 is a reply to message #15014] Sun, 23 May 2021 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Ah ok!
That makes sense because I have always heard that Gruens are difficult to date.
Thanks a lot for the detailed response!
I’ll check the movement serial and report back Smile
Re: Correct Pan Am? [message #15032 is a reply to message #15015] Mon, 24 May 2021 18:47 Go to previous message
cndguy82 is currently offline  cndguy82
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2017
Gruen Apprentice
Well I can’t really make out a serial.
Doesn’t matter, just going to enjoy this cool watch.
Thanks again for everyone’s help Smile
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