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Octagon pocket watch [message #18635] Mon, 04 September 2023 20:02 Go to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1832
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Model name: Octagon verithin
Type: Pocket watch
Period/date: 1917/1918
Gender: male

Case Maker: Gruen?
Case Material: sterling 925/1000
Case Serial: 326686
Case Style no: none

Caliber: V5 - 15 jewels 5 positions temperatures adjusted
Movement Maker: gruen
Movement Serial: 478301

Other info: the movement has been modified by a watchmaker. A setting lever screw has been added by drilling a hole through the plate. Not sure what is going on.  :roll:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10758&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10759&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10760&private=0
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10761&private=0
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You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: Octagon pocket watch [message #18636 is a reply to message #18635] Mon, 04 September 2023 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
Messages: 1841
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver
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In silver... Nice!

Why do you think the setting lever screw has been added? Am I missing something? The positive setting tab is removed... but I think this is the case as yours has the standard Swiss style setting works.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: Octagon pocket watch [message #18637 is a reply to message #18636] Tue, 05 September 2023 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Yes, Gruens in Swiss-made cases always used Swiss stems. Especially the early ones! What a beautiful and very rare watch.
Re: Octagon pocket watch [message #18638 is a reply to message #18637] Tue, 05 September 2023 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1832
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
I dont know enough about those V movements, but I think they should have one hole. Not two. Do they?

My movement:
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10762&private=0

So, the “A” slot doesnt seem that refined (or it is worn). I think that is an alteration? B is emptied (but logical because it is stem set/wound).

American/negative set/splitstem?
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10763&private=0

Swiss/positive set/stem?
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10764&private=0

The V5 seems rare… luckily it is running ok. Are parts  interchangeable with the V4?

I like the weird dial. Is it a swiss case made by gruen?


You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: Octagon pocket watch [message #18639 is a reply to message #18638] Tue, 05 September 2023 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2017
Gruen Master
Ok. I shall try to cover everything, but that's a lot!

The earlier typical production of V4 and V5 is American set. I am not surprised to see one with the American-set hole (B slot) and a Swiss stem, because it's easier to modify parts than create new ones. Very few of these were cased in Switzerland, so very few got Swiss stems (again, in the early going).

The "A slot" hole for the Swiss set is counter sunk and looks like factory work to me with a bunch of screwdriver slips added. Hard to tell for sure from pictures.

The second picture is the regular American set version, and the third is a very early Swiss set version. Movement 129913 will be pretty atypical of V4 movements overall, don't try a parts swap.

The V5 is not rare, but there are a lot less of them than the V4. Fortunately, all the parts interchange with V4s of a similar vintage and style. Some early V4s and V5s (before SN 456k) had atypical construction features, and probably don't interchange with anything. There were occasional updates to the V4 production that changed things like the diameter of the center wheel pinion, so be aware that you may need to find parts from within a 10k range around your serial number, and even then, it might be guess-and-check.

I thought that this was a Swiss made case; now I don't, but it's definitely made by Gruen. The markings are more typical of an American case, and no Swiss hallmarks appear. Sterling cases were available by special order only, and all of them are very uncommon. I've never seen a sterling octagon that wasn't Swiss before.

The dial is one of my favorites.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 September 2023 21:45]

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Re: Octagon pocket watch [message #18640 is a reply to message #18639] Wed, 06 September 2023 17:24 Go to previous message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
Messages: 1832
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gruen Authority
Thanks for your explanation. The other two pictures I stole from the caliber database on this forum.  :)

I will have a look out for examples with close numbers. I am familiar with the gamble part in the 756 family.  :lol:
It is running though (amplitude 210 with 44 degrees) but has dirt everywhere and missing oil.

Is the movement dial side different between the american en swiss set versions?

Ok, so watch case probably made down town Cincinnati and not in Time Hill. Never knew those silver cases were special orders. The personal engraving is pretty bold too. Almost a modern graffiti tag.


You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
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