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The VeriThin Dix [message #98] Sun, 12 May 2013 00:39 Go to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Model name : Dix
Type : VeriThin
Period/date : Approx 1941 to 1944
Gender : Mens

Case Maker : Swiss origin, maybe made by Gabus Freres
Case Material : Stainless
Case Serial: 27293
Case Style no : na

Caliber: 411
Movement Maker: Gruen
Movement Serial: 397122

Bracelet: Leather strap

Other info: Corresponds to Import 251 in Shawkey's book. Page193
index.php?t=getfile&id=22&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=20&private=0
index.php?t=getfile&id=21&private=0
this is what the dial looked like on arrival:
index.php?t=getfile&id=23&private=0


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

[Updated on: Sun, 12 May 2013 00:46]

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Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9255 is a reply to message #98] Fri, 28 September 2018 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesnark17 is currently offline  thesnark17
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What did you do to the dial to improve it so much?

I ask because I have a Dix in similar condition. I didn't realize it could be improved that much...
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9256 is a reply to message #9255] Fri, 28 September 2018 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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I don't think I did much to it. Soap and water maybe. I have used a silver cleaner in the past called Goddard's silver cleaner but don't recall if I dipped it or not.

https://www.amazon.com/Goddards-Silver-Care-Liquid-Dip/dp/B0 7FY1PJGW


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9257 is a reply to message #9256] Fri, 28 September 2018 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barney Green
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I think the new crystal made the dial appear much better...
BTW does anyone has a proof that the Dix was still sold after 1942? I only have ads mentioning it from 1941 and 1942. Also the movement serial number of this watch dates it to late 1941.

At Paul Schliessers website it is said that "Although Gruen did not manufacture watches for the U.S. military, they offered the public a collection of eight military-style watches, to be used as personal watches by (or gifts to) men and women doing military service.". This is not quite right. There was an ad in 1941 Paul might refer to which showed 8 watches for this purpose, but there were more than these eight being sold as "Service watches".


Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9268 is a reply to message #9257] Mon, 08 October 2018 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Barney Green wrote on Fri, 28 September 2018 08:39
BTW does anyone has a proof that the Dix was still sold after 1942? I only have ads mentioning it from 1941 and 1942. Also the movement serial number of this watch dates it to late 1941.
I had hope, that the Dix design would had make the transfer from the 410/411 to the 420/421 movement. The Lexington seems to have. I've seen what look like a Lexington. I think that the "military style" that Gruen was working towards in 1941 changed dramatically. It revolved around the pending Pan Am series by 1943, even if the line didn't "officially" be released until 1945. There are far too many pre-1945 Pan Am like dialed watches.

That said, I have this watch...
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3781&private=0

Right side is the VT Dix and on the left is something that looks similar but isn't. The VT Dix is a 411 and the other is a 421 movement.
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3782&private=0

Looks similar to the Dix, but I don't think that is what it is or was marketed as. Who know what it was called. My guess, is that the watch is late 1943.

This should also put to bed the question on the condition of the Dix dial.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9280 is a reply to message #9268] Tue, 16 October 2018 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikey is currently offline  mikey
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Is this one another VT Dix ?? eBay# 392143542919

Still here....
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #9282 is a reply to message #9280] Tue, 16 October 2018 01:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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mikey wrote on Tue, 16 October 2018 00:35
Is this one another VT Dix ?? eBay# 392143542919
Yes, it is. So is this one too: 352484063440

This one also sold the otherday.... 202464656284 which I bought. Dial is in much better condition than the one I have.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

[Updated on: Tue, 16 October 2018 01:06]

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Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14854 is a reply to message #9282] Wed, 12 May 2021 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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In my original post of this watch, the engraving on the back has been solved.

I tried to get an article published in the NAWCC Bulletin, but after several back and forths with the editor, I've decided to self publish. Not that a whole lot of people will see it having taken this route.

https://sometimetospare.wordpress.com/2021/04/23/the-watch-o f-lieutenant-colonel-w-a-marshall/

Unlike the Ellie Goldstein watch, efforts to contact the family were discouraged by the Marshall family friend I became acquainted with.

Enjoy!


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14858 is a reply to message #14854] Thu, 13 May 2021 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ephemerald
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Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
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Hi!

Interesting article you wrote there. Its great you were able to piece together so much of this watch owners story, I must say, its quite uncommon to be able to find out so much info on someone who isn't a relative or famous - good work! And didn't even have to contact his family? Wow.

And w/ all due respect & under the full umbrella of a constructive critic who is simply invested in correct Gruen history, there is one inaccuracy I am compelled to point out in this statement of yours:

"This is despite the service of Benjamin Katz, President of Gruen being also the president of the War Products Board during the opening years of the war.".

Benjamin Katz was never at any time the "president" of the War Production Board.


The Chief or the First Chairman of the War Production Board (not "Products") during Katz tenure (Dec 42 to Feb 43, barely 2 months) at WPB was Donald M. Nelson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Nelson


What did Katz do on the WPB? Well, he was invited by Vice Chairman Ferdinand Eberstadt to be his "special assistant" in implementing his "Controlled Material Plan".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Eberstadt

Why did Katz leave so soon?
There were many insane mini wars going on in the WPB. Not only were the two head honchos in competition, Nelson and Eberstadt but there were different factions within WPB loyal to Army/Navy and others loyal to Air Force despite these being Civilian posts. Eberstadt may have been an investment banker but his role as the Chairman for Army Navy Munitions Board during WW2 and service in the Army in the Great War formed loyalties he could not abandon.
Basically, Eberstadt, who btw was instrumental in founding CIA & NSC, wouldn't release Army tools for the Air guys to use on their airplanes, and was only at WPB for 5 months before Nelson forced him out but is still recognized as being very impactful on WPB. He was a Wall Street guy, but in consolidation with his Army brethren, Eberstadt enlisted in Artillery after being canned at the WPB a symbolic gesture. Katz as Eberstadts right hand man had to leave with him.

There were two Gruens on the WPB. Edward Dietrich Gruen and his wife Bertha Gruen (maiden: Asch). This is one of Frank Gruens son's. Frank is, of course, the most reserved & least well known of the original Gruen Brothers. Bertha was an economist British & U.S. Raw Materials Finance Committee for WPB & Edward was a "senior industrial economist". Their WPB tenure spanned prior, during, & post Katz time at there. Whoa way more than I meant to write. Carry on.






Matthias

[Updated on: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:10]

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Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14863 is a reply to message #14858] Thu, 13 May 2021 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jenneke is currently offline  Jenneke
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Fun to read the story behind the watch. Not the “they lived happily ever after” story for this family.

And nice to learn something about WPB.


You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14866 is a reply to message #14858] Thu, 13 May 2021 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Oh man.... I honestly cannot address how I misconstrued Katz as the WPB President. Your comments are appreciated, but I wish you would have replied to my earlier email and PM. You not get those? What you wrote about Katz and the WPB is quite insightful. You should expand that.

Anyway, I've made the fix. Good thing it didn't go to a dead-trees periodical with that inaccuracy. sheesh.

Thanks!


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton
Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14867 is a reply to message #14858] Fri, 14 May 2021 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JackW is currently offline  JackW
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Ephemerald wrote on Thu, 13 May 2021 00:02
I must say, its quite uncommon to be able to find out so much info on someone who isn't a relative or famous - good work! And didn't even have to contact his family? Wow.
It is practically cyber stalking. I said as much to Ellie Goldstein's son when he and I spoke. I figure it could be unnerving for the person/family at the other end. Hence why I was rather reluctant to contact one of the Goldstein family members. For Doc's watch, the Marshall family friend that contacted, and whom I have spoken with, is the one that advised not to contact... saying, the living daughter would be quite upset. And I think I know why about the watch: I'm fairly certain that Doc was wearing it at the time he was killed.

Jenneke wrote on Thu, 13 May 2021 15:07
Fun to read the story behind the watch. Not the “they lived happily ever after” story for this family.
It is not a happy ending story. But that drives home that as a vintage watch collector, that there were real people connected to these watches before whom have lived their lives. It is a sobering thought, to say the least.


All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

[Updated on: Tue, 18 May 2021 01:08]

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Re: The VeriThin Dix [message #14887 is a reply to message #14866] Mon, 17 May 2021 05:45 Go to previous message
Ephemerald
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Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt
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No problem! For sure I'll expand on it.

Matthias
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