Vintage Gruen: 1920's

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Tank 9 [message #3882]

Fri, 20 June 2014 19:20

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Model name : Tank 9
Type : tank
Period/date : 1923-1930
Gender : male

Case Maker : Gruen
Case Material : 14k gold reinforced with metal (green gold filled)
Case Serial : 2003250
Case Style no : 55

Caliber : 99
Movement Maker : Gruen
Movement Serial: -

Bracelet :

Other info : The method of constructing the Tank is patented Feb 16, 1926 by patent US1573134 "watchcase and process for making same".
This Tank has not the patented dust proof crown construction.

index.php?t=getfile&id=1551&private=0

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Attachment: Tank_Case_inside.jpg
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Attachment: Tank_Case_back.jpg
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Attachment: Tank_Movement.jpg
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Attachment: Tank_advertisement2.JPG
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You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

[Updated on: Sun, 15 November 2020 21:43]

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Re: Tank 9? [message #3883 is a reply to message #3882]

Fri, 20 June 2014 19:28

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Not perfect pictures, not perfectly cleaned. The case can use an extra polish. I don't want to clean the dial because I like that old look.

When looking in the master book I think this one is a Tank 9. But with the hands of Tank 1 and the dial of Tank 13. What would you say?

And the seller stated is as Green gold. How can you see it is green gold? I would call it pale greenish yellow. If this one is green I might have more green gruen's... hmmm.

It is running fine but has 1 problem. It spreads radium. Shocked

See what I mean with that in the picture below. The crystal is not a perfect fit. Could a little bit glue fill in those gaps?
index.php?t=getfile&id=1556&private=0

Attachment: Crystal_gaps.jpg
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You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Tank 9? [message #3884 is a reply to message #3883]

Fri, 20 June 2014 19:59

afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

Very nice, and that was an absolute steal.

Jenneke wrote on Fri, 20 June 2014 14:28

When looking in the master book I think this one is a Tank 9. But with the hands of Tank 1 and the dial of Tank 13. What would you say?

I would say that the dial and hands don't have any bearing on an ID. If the case matches Tank 9, then I'd say it's a Tank 9. That said, I'm guessing that the hands might not be original. I would expect it to have luminous hands to match the luminous dial.

Jenneke wrote on Fri, 20 June 2014 14:28

And the seller stated is as Green gold. How can you see it is green gold? I would call it pale greenish yellow. If this one is green I might have more green gruen's... hmmm.

"Pale greenish yellow" pretty much sums up "green" gold. And you probably do have other green Gruens if you have any from the 1920s. Just looking in the Master Book, it appears that green and white were just about the only colors used for that decade. Right at the end of the '20s and beginning of the '30s, you see yellow (or "coin") gold creeping back in, and by the mid '30s, everything is yellow or rose, no green, and almost no white. If ever in doubt, set a suspected green case next to a yellow gold case from the mid '30s or later and the difference should be evident.

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Re: Tank 9? [message #3888 is a reply to message #3884]

Fri, 20 June 2014 20:35

afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

One other thought about this watch...

Despite looking like it saw plenty of use, it looks like there's no brassing on the case, right? And I've noticed that on the handful of other gold filled "Tank" watches I've seen. These cases seem to wear exceptionally well. I have a couple of theories about that. One, probably the most obvious and probably correct, is that the way they're stamped - with almost all rounded contours, and not many sharp angles - causes them to wear well, since the gold layers are usually stretched thin around sharp angles. The other theory is that maybe the "14k gold reinforced with metal" really means something on Gruen's in-house gold filled cases. The marketing materials describe a thick gold outer shell with a base metal interior. Having handled a lot of "reinforced" Wadsworth cases over the years, I'm inclined to say that they're really nothing more than conventional gold filled, or close to it. Perhaps there's more of a difference with the cases Gruen made themselves. But I've never had one to see in person myself.

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Re: Tank 9? [message #3890 is a reply to message #3888]

Fri, 20 June 2014 21:00

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

Ah, good one. I will make a Watch Tables photo and compare the colors.

Quote:

Despite looking like it saw plenty of use, it looks like there's no brassing on the case, right?

Indeed, there is no brassing on the case. You might be right with that folding on a curved case theory. One contra argument is that the lug ends don't have wear either.

I dont know the differences between "Ultra quality", "14k gold filled", "14k gold reinforced with metal". I do know that the 14k gold filled cases reinforced with extra gold have less wear.

I will have a closer look inside the case if it looks different. If you ever travel oversees, you're invited to see this one!

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Tank 9? [message #3891 is a reply to message #3888]

Fri, 20 June 2014 21:10

MikeTheWatchGuy
Messages: 319
Registered: May 2013
Location: North Carolina

Gruen Guildsman

I recall Charlie Cleves' NAWCC lecture on Wadsworth, with a healthy dose of Gruen all the way through it, said that Gruen used up to 50% more gold in their fold filled cases. I believe he meant or stated they are the reinforced ones. As the lecture was Wadsworth oriented, it could be that the Wadsworth made ones also had more gold. He has some documentation on the specs of the cases that provides more information than in the normal literature Gruen distributed.

It's been a long time since I saw the tape of it. If you can check it out sometime, it's a fascinating talk as he talks about stuff like the number of bends it takes to make a bezel for instance.

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14684 is a reply to message #3891]

Thu, 25 March 2021 21:31

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

The lecture: https://vimeo.com/407747450

You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14685 is a reply to message #14684]

Thu, 25 March 2021 22:27

afire
Messages: 1312
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

That was fascinating.

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14688 is a reply to message #14685]

Fri, 26 March 2021 02:19

Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

https://media1.tenor.com/images/732de6aed0b20b80bceaf092a452d84d/tenor.gif?itemid=19735343

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14701 is a reply to message #14688]

Wed, 31 March 2021 01:52

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

That was great! Thanks for posting!

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14811 is a reply to message #14701]

Fri, 30 April 2021 18:07

Jenneke
Messages: 1853
Registered: May 2013
Location: Netherlands

Gruen Authority

This one had an upgrade. It is now in my regular wearer part of my collection.

I’ve got myself a Geiger counter and it it spreads almost nothing. Measurement on the back is the same as the background dose. And the Front:
/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8084&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8084&private=0

Attachment: AAEEE62C-906E-49D8-9867-D25D2ED7C3C3.jpeg
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You can only waste time if you forget to enjoy it - Loesje

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14812 is a reply to message #14811]

Fri, 30 April 2021 23:41

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Whoa—impressive! Guarding against the Gruen “radio-activator”? I’m afraid of what measurements my loose movements throw...

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Re: Tank 9? [message #14813 is a reply to message #14812]

Sat, 01 May 2021 02:11

Gary
Messages: 2108
Registered: May 2013
Location: Left Coast

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Would stand to be, from the Wiki

Clocks, watches, and instruments dating from the first half of the 20th century, often in military applications, may have been painted with radioactive luminous paint. They are usually no longer luminous; however, this is not due to radioactive decay of the radium (which has a half-life of 1600 years) but to the fluorescence of the zinc sulfide fluorescent medium being worn out by the radiation from the radium.[46] The appearance of an often thick layer of green or yellowish brown paint in devices from this period suggests a radioactive hazard. The radiation dose from an intact device is relatively low and usually not an acute risk; but the paint is dangerous if released and inhaled or ingested.

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